Finish What You Started - Vintage RC10

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LostCyborg
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Finish What You Started - Vintage RC10

Post by LostCyborg »

Behold. My vintage circa late 1980's gold pan RC10.

Image

Is it an A stamp? I've seen that mentioned, but have yet to look up how to ID that. It does have an "A" stamped on that little curvy tail part on the back, so I'm guessing it is.

This was my second RC car. My first was a Tamyia Falcon, that was pre-built at the hobby shop I believe. I ran that thing into the dirt, until I could no longer make it work by duct taping the parts that broke on it together. I was only 10 or maybe 12 at the time and did not have the know how to fix it or try going to the hobby shop for spare parts, etc... I dunno, it never occurred to me at the time. What did I know I was an ignorant kid!

So, next up I think I got an RC10 kit for Christmas. I wanted it bad! It was state of the art and would have been the envy of all the kids on my middle America suburban street. I was going to blow all them Grasshoppers away with it. I couldn't wait to jump the curbs at all the drive way entrances and let that aluminum body just scrape and roll with it. No worries about a cracked body, or broken parts playing demolition derby. (Yeah, the spoiled suburban kids in my childhood neighborhood actually did that with our hobby grade RC cars), this puppy was designed like a tank and was supposed to be fast! I couldn't wait.

One fine February day it snowed. Snow day! School cancelled! I remember spending the day putting my RC10 together. It was fun! It was exciting! I had a blast with it! I got it all together to the point where it even had wheels and tires on it and it rolled across the floor. It was so cool seeing how all those gears fit together and it made things spin and other parts move. This was going to be great!

Then it came time to put the electronics in. I figured I'd just use the stuff from my Falcon. No need to buy me another remote controller Mom and Dad. I just need the kit for the car! I even already have a battery and charger! I stared at all those wires, and read the manual about soldering this to that, and positive and negative and connect this thingamajig to that doohicky. It was near hopeless. I was lost. What's a soldering iron? I dunno if Mom and Dad would approve of me using one of those... if we even have one. Sounds like it could be dangerous. They didn't much like it when they caught me playing with matches. Oh well... maybe my Dad can help me figure it out later. RC10 back into the box, put it on a shelf.... hmmmm time went by.

Fast forward about 20 years (give or take) later (2005)... I'd just gotten out of my first marriage, was back at my parents house visiting from across the country and hey what's that over there in the basement? It's my old RC10 kit! Sweet. I have a 7 year old son now. He'll love it. I should finish that thing. I managed to fit it in my suitcase and fly home with it. I drove over to a hobby shop and showed it to the kid behind the counter, and asked him what I needed to finish it up. He said here, sold me an Airtronics transmitter / receiver, a 15000mAH Ni-CD battery and a charger. I paid the $74.66 for it with tax (I have the receipt for it sitting right here in front of me) and walked out the door. Eager to slap the old girl together finally, I sped home, pulled everything out on my coffee table and started trying to figure out how to hook it all together. Realized there was no speed controller, and a few other things I probably needed to get it finished up (including a body), and put it all away again, with good intention of coming back to it real soon. But you know how it is... living the fast life. Women, other hobbies, work, life, remarriage, more kids... etc... etc...

Which brings me to today (or at least the past few weeks when I have had time). Ok... now I'm going to finish this thing and get it running for reals. I've ordered this and that. I think I almost have everything I need to get this precious little baby road worthy. I'm so stinking excited I can hardly stand it. Nothing is going to get in my way, and I'm going to do it right.

I already started by tearing most of it back down, so I can make sure its put together properly. I was around 12 I think when I built this originally after all (with no adult supervision), so I was pretty sure there would be a lack of workmanship in there. Sure enough, there were things like set screws missing in places. If I had actually slapped a motor in the poor girl probably would have flown apart half way down the driveway.

Anyways, that is how I ended up here, and I know I'm going to have some real stupid questions. I'm pretty good at figuring stuff out, but despite spending 4 years in the Marine Corps as a mechanic and having a career in IT, I still have a pretty limited knowledge about electronics. You're never too old to learn something though.

Anyways, I do have two initial questions, related to the ESC I picked up, which I may have already figured out, but would like some input on.

The circa 2005 Airtonics Tx/Rx I have uses the Z connectors. I grabbed a cheap ESC from Hobby King... this one:
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__32025__HobbyKing_X_Car_45A_Brushed_Car_ESC.html

I've figured out that the Rx connector on the ESC is the Futaba J connector. Initially I was thinking I would then need to get a J to Z adapter, but all I can find is Z to old school Airtronics (ATX?) adapters. I think I read somewhere that the Futaba J and Airtronics Z's are the same, with a different form factor for the plug, which leads me to think I can just get some Z connectors and swap the J connector out and plug it into my Rx. Is that true? Otherwise if I use this Tx/Rx setup it seems I'll need to get the old Airtronics to Z adapter, then J to old Airtronics, which just seems wrong to me. (Or go with a new Tx/Rx) ;)

My second question is, that this ESC is 2S Lipo rated. Can you also use Nihm and Ni-CD with Lipo rated ESC's? My understanding is that going Lipo batteries to non-Lipo rated ESC's is bad, but not sure about the other way around. I haven't plopped the green down for a battery and charger yet (still have this 10 year old Ni-CD and charger which I will be surprised if it even works), so planning to get something newer. I'd just like to be clear on what's compatible with what out of curiosity.

Anyways... thanks in advance, and sorry for the long winded post, but thought I'd share my dumb story. I figure if anyone out there would care what this thing in my office that's in pieces is, it would be the community here.

On a side note... when you own something that you got NEW, and its referred to as "Vintage" or even "Classic"... it makes you feel kind of old.

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GoMachV
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Re: Finish What You Started - Vintage RC10

Post by GoMachV »

A Z plug and a Futaba are wired the same, only the tab keeps you from plugging it in. Trim off the tab, and line up the red and black wires. That's what we always did. With that style connector, if you plug it in backwards it won't hurt anything. With the old airtronics it would smoke!
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LostCyborg
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Re: Finish What You Started - Vintage RC10

Post by LostCyborg »

gomachv wrote:A Z plug and a Futaba are wired the same, only the tab keeps you from plugging it in. Trim off the tab, and line up the red and black wires. That's what we always did. With that style connector, if you plug it in backwards it won't hurt anything. With the old airtronics it would smoke!
Awesome! Thanks man. I thought that might work

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Minisforever
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Re: Finish What You Started - Vintage RC10

Post by Minisforever »

Good read and a Really cool trip down memory lane. Might want to think about keeping that chassis new and find a donor chassis to use. Keep us updated on your project and welcome to the forum :D

LostCyborg
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Re: Finish What You Started - Vintage RC10

Post by LostCyborg »

Minisforever wrote:Good read and a Really cool trip down memory lane. Might want to think about keeping that chassis new and find a donor chassis to use. Keep us updated on your project and welcome to the forum :D
Thanks... I thought about that. It looks like I might be able to find some perfectly usable yet already abused chassis for a reasonable amount on eBay.

Speaking of which, I was just contemplating this... hmmmm... should I run the virgin stock Associated motor that it came with, or should I pick up another one to run. Holy crap! I see that motor alone listed for around $200 on eBay!

I guess that answers my question. I already decided I was going to keep the original wheels and tires clean and not run them. I dunno, I just thought it was a cool idea. I picked up some JConcepts 1.9 front and 1.7 rear wheels and tires to go with it. All in, it only cost me around 20 bucks.

I'm one of those guys that if I had a classic '69 Camaro, I'd still probably drive it pretty hard, just cause... that's what it was made for! But seeing as I could keep this chassis relatively clean (it has a couple scratches probably from just getting moved around and stuff), it might be a good idea to find one that's already beat up to run.

Ok... so with that said, if I'm going to stay with a brushed system (which I plan to for now, just for costs sake), what do I need to look for in a motor. I think I read somewhere before when I was researching that the stock Associated is a 27T (27 turns? please correct me if I got that all wrong)....

The stock pinion gear I have is 15T, and I did pick up a 16T pinion when I was ordering some other parts. I read some article about keeping your roll out ration as close to 1 as possible, and did the calcs and found a 16t pinion with an 81p spur was as close to 1:1 for a rollout I could get. Now I've read other stuff that made me think that may all be hogwash... but hey I'm trying!

Keep in mind I have the original 6 speed tranny, and don't want to rip it to shreds. I don't need this thing to win the Paris Dakar rally either. At this point I just want to make it go... so I guess in a round about way my question is, what do I look for in a motor that's close to the stock Associated motor, and is a good match up to the stock 81p spur and either the 15t or 16t pinion I have?

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Re: Finish What You Started - Vintage RC10

Post by flipwils11 »

Just posted this in another thread but thought it would be good advice for you.

http://www.rc10talk.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=37714&p=423253#p423253

Very cool that you are finishing your old rc10. Don't kill your newfound enthusiasm with the wrong electronics, you'll thank me.

Edit: one of my first posts here. Go down to the part where I wanted to use an old Futaba 1024pcm radio.

http://www.rc10talk.com/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=14446

Currently in all my cars, vintage and new, I run LRP and tekin esc's, speed passion sensored brushless motors, Futaba 2.4ghz Fasst radio and receiver, and Savox titanium gear servos. On the advice of a forum member here I buy a lot of nice, used electronics on the rctech classifieds as racers upgrade to the newest gear and sell high end lightly used stuff that was state of the art a season or two ago.

LostCyborg
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Re: Finish What You Started - Vintage RC10

Post by LostCyborg »

Thanks for the advice flipwils. I'll have to take a look at the classifieds for used gear.

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Re: Finish What You Started - Vintage RC10

Post by harvey »

Hey Cyborg,
You might think about a protective sheet to stick on the bottom of your chassis BEFORE you run it. (JConcepts makes a precut one) The worst scratches will happen on the nose plate, which is a great place for a bumper (although they are kinda tacky). This will keep it pristine looking for a long while. As this is your only buggy, you pretty much have to run it, it will be so fun! However, if you begin to collect buggies, like many of us on here you may yearn for a pristine example of the buggy you already have. I just got in from running my original gold pan, which I've had for 25 years! But other buggies in my collection I will never run, because they are still new. All I'm saying is that you could get a beater to bash with for a lot cheaper than a brand new never run A stamp, and you'll never replace your childhood car. (keep in mind the source of this advice; a racer turned collector) Either way, I'm sure you'll have a ball!

P.S.
1) I have the same speed control that you picked up and I'd look for a 27T motor.

2) Pay attention to diff setup; with the diff out of the trans it should not be possible to spin the spur gear while holding the two smaller gears. If it slips when you drive it, it will score the rings and possibly flat spot the balls.

3) A piece of paper can be helpful for setting gear mesh with the pinion (on the motor) and spur gears, feed it into the teeth and tighten, and once removed there should be a miniscule rocking between the teeth. However, with the 6 gear the spur isn't always spinning round, so be sure to check it at many points as you rotate the spur through 360 degrees. A tight gear mesh will heat everything up in a hurry, and will slow your buggy more than you'd expect.

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Re: Finish What You Started - Vintage RC10

Post by flipwils11 »

He makes a great point. Because of the significance of this one that was never run and you are the original owner I wouldn't do more than run it mildly on carpet, like in your living room. Get a Worlds re-release that are on team associated's website now for $199 with free shipping. Build it and beat the hell out of it and save this one.

LostCyborg
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Re: Finish What You Started - Vintage RC10

Post by LostCyborg »

Thanks guys! I may just do that, and get a Worlds car kit. This one would make a cool shelf decoration.

On a side note, for some reason I was missing the set screws on mine for the steering linkage. I saw pictures online of steering servo links that used a turnbuckle, and thought that looks like a much better setup. I could not figure out or find how long of a turnbuckle to get though so ended up ordering another original steering / servo parts bag. It wasn't until I was scanning around online this weekend and figured out that the turnbuckle steering / servo connector was a "Worlds RC10" setup. LOL... so funny how all the information for pretty much anything is out there, but unless you know exactly what you're looking for, can be hard to find, even with Google!

One more stupid question. For you guys running Lipo's, can you recommend a 2s that fits the stock original RC10 battery tray?

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Re: Finish What You Started - Vintage RC10

Post by JasonB »

First off, great story. I enjoyed reading it. I'm sure the "I dug out my old RC10" is WAY more common around here than we suspect.

I'll agree with others in that I would never run a brand new A stamp car, purely because it's worth more $ (and more to me) brand new and 100% stock. But it's your car, so who am I to tell you what to do? At the least, you can find used B/C gold chassis/nose plates for like $30-40 on ebay all the time. Also 2nd the rere purchase; I bought a second NEW IN BOX rere worlds car on ebay for $170 shipped last month.

Some LiPo's will fit the vertical dimension (this is the one I use http://www.amazon.com/Venom-4100mAh-Battery-Universal-System/dp/B004YNQXFK ), but they will all be too long for the front battery cup location and also too long to orient perpendicular in the chassis. You can re-drill the holes, cut out the front of the battery cup, or buy a rere chassies which already has the holes moved. Or a "shorty" LiPo pack, but then you would have to figure out placement/how to secure it, etc etc. IMHO since you don't plan to race it, I would just stick with the NiCd/NiMH c-cell packs. It actually more makes sense if you are staying with a brushed motor anyway.

The whole "worlds" steering is pretty cheap, includes the turnbuckle and replaces the sloppy factory servo saver:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Associated-Bellcrank-Steering-Kit-RC10-Classic-6252-NIB-/390724764133?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5af902c1e5

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Re: Finish What You Started - Vintage RC10

Post by LostCyborg »

I took the plunge and ordered the Worlds car kit from Associated today over my lunch break. Thank you very much for that suggestion. It just seemed too good to pass up at $199 and free shipping. At the moment its hard to find a deal much better than that on eBay for a Worlds car.

I definitely want to avoid drilling anything on this A chassis. I'll probably hook this particular one up with one that fits (Nihm, etc...).

I'm still going to finish rebuilding the A stamp chassis, even as far as to get a brushed motor and servo mounted in it just to see it can go, and probably tuck it away for safe keeping / display somewhere in the house. I'll try to keep it to driving on the carpet and hard wood floors. My dogs and cats will thank me for it I'm sure! I just know when I get the A stamp going and don't have an outlet to tear up the neighborhood in, I'll end up banging this old girl enough that I might cry later at some point down the line. Its a good piece for collection and has plenty of sentimental value obviously.

Thanks for all the input everyone! I'll keep pictures and updates posted to this thread as I progress on both projects.

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Re: Finish What You Started - Vintage RC10

Post by jwscab »

excellent plan, it's a super vintage example that is UNRUN. very rare.

the worlds car will not have tires, so you can run the hazards and tires you already got, or, need to buy some 2.2" tires, usually front rib and rear spike of some type. also, the proline dirt hawgs are nice all around tires, too.

nice story, good luck!

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Re: Finish What You Started - Vintage RC10

Post by Bottom Feeder »

Cool story. I agree that a 'new' original A-stamp is a bit too nice to be used as a basher, so good call on the Worlds car. It's a great mix of old and new tech and should be supported for a while, and it'll be a far better runner than your original would be. Finish it nice and keep it on the shelf.

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Re: Finish What You Started - Vintage RC10

Post by LostCyborg »

My RC10 World's Car arrived on Friday. It hasn't taken me long between work and chores, etc... around the house to get this one close to finished. I've got it built all the way to the point of putting shocks on it. I figured putting this one together from scratch will give me some experience and help when I go to finish up my original Gold Pan. I'm still waiting on electronics to arrive next week. I ordered a 17.5 T sensored brushless + brushless ESC and a steering servo + 2s Lipo's, charger, etc... Once those arrive I'll get this one finished up, give it a few test drives and move on to finishing up my Gold Pan.

I have two questions regarding the World's Car.

First is what pinion do some of you run with a 17.5T brushless motor? I see the manual calls for a 30T 48P pinion with the stock 81T spur. My ESC does not have the advanced timing... whatever, its club stock spec or something like that. I didn't really even understand what I was ordering when I did, although now I understand that is to keep it at stock for ROAR racing rules or something along those lines, which I'm cool with for now. Is that what a lot of you run on the stock World's Car? 30T pinion? I have a 15 and 16T pinion on hand, but plan to order a 30T at a minimum, if not a few others to try out, but wanted to get some input. I understand the whole gearing up and down concept, just that not knowing this car at all, and not yet having the pinion the manual recommends, I wanted to see what other people have found works well. This will mainly just be for bashing and running around the neighborhood for now. Although if I find a local track I might like to go try a race or two out. It sounds fun!

My second question is regarding the stealth tranny. After slapping it together it seems really stiff to me. I mean... like it takes a good amount of torque to turn the spur. This seems completely wrong. The way it is now I see a lot of energy loss from the motor to get this sucker to turn. The 6speed I built at age 12/13 in my Gold Pan is a little rough, but it turns fairly easily. This stealth is way to stiff. I'm going to tear it apart again this evening and reassemble it. I'm thinking somehow I got a bearing binding or something. I would have expected it to turn pretty easily, and to be pretty smooth. I'm not wrong in thinking something is amiss am I?

Thanks again in advance for the input.

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