RC10 Pan Car Refurb (A&L trans update)

[n20capri]

Started an intro thread here:
http://www.rc10talk.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=36684

But figured I'd do a separate resto thread since that had some Kyosho references in it.

Me and my Dad used to race all our stuff back in the day...finally dug everything out. it all works...just time for a clean-up and resto.

This is how she started. (yes that's a GoPro mount - I couldn't resist! lol)






Close ups started to take apart:


Car was super dirty and dusty. Those foam tires were terrible. Plus 20+ years of dust hasn't helped!




Hex conversion for more modern wheels I have coming...Still waiting on king pins so I can finalize it.


This thing was the bomb back in the day. We went years being very competitive with the Tamiya Technipower/Technigold motors but eventually we had to switch to the newer stuff.


This thing has an A&L belt driven trans in it! Super cool. Thing is butter.


After I dyed everything and going back together:

The Andy's pan car conversion parts were black and the stock stuff was white and it looked weird so I decided to do everything black. Me likes!


Rear end going back together - Still waiting on hubs so I can complete the hex conversion on the rear.


Rebuilding the shocks...early bottom load type...


All apart


Done


The rears apart and clean (not using the rears for the pan car but I have everything to convert it back to a buggy if I want.)


Rears done:


Fronts on the rear. You can see from the pic above it had Kyosho fronts on the rear to accommodate the pan conversion. I found a cheap set of RC10 fronts on ebay so now I'll have a matching set and the Kyosho's can go back on my old Optima Mid so now that will have a matching set too. When the ebay fronts get here I'll be able to complete the front end.





For all the pics new and old...
http://www.mikemartinelli.com/index.php?album=My-Car-Pics/RcCars

Next up cleaning the electronics and motor. Also hex conversion documentation and completion. Also have to find a body! Any suggestions? Can't wait to get her back on the road and start the next resto - The RC10T!
Enjoy!

[THEYTOOKMYTHUMB]

You have some great parts on that car. Even the electronics. It looks like one of the gearbox class cars that raced on-road at the track I grew up on. It was always my favorite class. Looks like it's cleanin' up real nice.

[n20capri]

Got all the electronics cleaned up. Receiver mounted. Will get the servo and esc mounted next.

Before:




After:


Receiver after:



esc after - not the one in the original pics. Juggling esc's around to make a better fit for each car. (rubber plugs are in a baggy on the workbench so I don't lose them!)



Also got the rest of the parts for my hex conversion project. Very simple in the end (knowing everything I know now of course! lol). Below is an outline of the parts and my notes used for a complete hex conversion. I didn't find anything complete on the web - just stuff here and there. Trial and error was the rest. This is for someone not up to date - I haven't played with these things in 20+ years so I'm not up on all the new parts and what interchanges with what. I'm sure there are other methods but this is how I did it using factory parts:

Parts List:
FRONT:

• - Castor Block 30° - Part# 7922 (EDIT - 30° block shown in pics...I've since swapped over to the 20°blocks - Part# 9592)
  - Steering Block - Part# 9880
  - Bearing, 3/16 x 3/8 - Part# 3977 - You'll need 4 total (2 sets)
  - Aluminum Clamping wheel hex - front - Part# 9891
  - B4 front Axle - Part# 7496
  - Hinge Pin Set, outer, and King Pin - part# 9622
  - 2-56 x 1/8" Button Head Screw - Part# 9645
  - 1/16" Universal Roll Pins - Part# 7369

You'll need to ream out the new caster block to 1/8" to fit the stock pins. Super easy just let the drill bit pull itself through...it will go straight no problem.

Not listed above but you'll need them...the little nut that fits into the steering arm (see pic below)...it's required as the hole is too big and the screw won't thread into the plastic. I didn't know that until today - luckily I had a couple of nuts laying around so I was ok. (edit - manual calls for part # 4449 - 4-40 Aluminum Locknut, small pattern - I just used a non locking one I had laying around. If I convert my RC10T I'll just pick up the correct ones then). Also see in this pic is the button head screw holding the pin into place.





Here is the B4 manual I used for reference...again very helpful for someone not up to date on things - also note the orientation of the caster blocks...they aren't labeled themselves...the plastic piece they come attached to is - I ripped them apart before realizing that...again using the manual for reference.
Front starting on page 5:
http://www.teamassociated.com/pdf/cars_and_trucks/RC10B4.2/RSRTR/manual_B4.2RS.pdf

REAR:

• - RC10 Rear Wheel Conversion - Part# 6802 (their site shows them in black - but mine were white so I had to dye! Grrrr)
  - Aluminum Clamping wheel hex - rear - Part# 9890

I originally just got the axles but realized it wouldn't work with the stock bearing/hubs so I got the 6802 conversion kit...perhaps just new bearings would have worked with the stock hubs - idk I just went this route. It worked out in the end for me though because the kit also comes with new wheel nuts. NOTE for front kit - if you don't get this rear wheel conversion kit you'll need nuts for the front wheels! lol

If you simply want to throw some adapters on the stock 1/4" rear axles I see these things are available...
http://www.pargustore.com/associated-rc10-hex-adapter-for-rc10-1-4-axles.html

Additioanlly, if you want a cheaper hex adapter alternative - AE sells a plastic set...

• - Plastic Hex Adapter (front and rear) - Part# 7497

Manual for the rear starting on page 12:
http://www.teamassociated.com/pdf/cars_and_trucks/RC10B4.2/RSRTR/manual_B4.2RS.pdf



And the rest of the pics. Ebay front shocks came and and are mounted...



And the roller as a whole! I say roller but I don't have wheels or tires yet! ha







A runner for sure...we used to beat the snot of these things...awesome!



Enjoy!

[n20capri]

You have some great parts on that car. Even the electronics. It looks like one of the gearbox class cars that raced on-road at the track I grew up on. It was always my favorite class. Looks like it's cleanin' up real nice.

Must have posted as I was doing an update...thanks. Yeah I'm happy with how it's looking. Just need to find a body that fits right...

[THEYTOOKMYTHUMB]

If you trim those front towers down I think you'll have a much easier time shopping bodies. Looks great though.

[n20capri]

If you trim those front towers down I think you'll have a much easier time shopping bodies. Looks great though.

Thanks!! I thought about it but I don't really think they are getting in the way as the current stock car body doesn't hit. It's hard to find something with the long wheelbase (275mm) and the wide stance (9+").

[n20capri]

Got all the electronics mounted but now of course I'm not getting power to the motor...I'm hoping it's my old race prep connectors and not the esc but we'll see - have to investigate more. Also waiting on wheels to come from China and body selection...Pics to come in next couple days...

[n20capri]

Ughhh can't catch a break. China wheels were crap and didn't fit properly (hex hub wasn't made properly) PLUS the offset wasn't correct. Did some research and decided I need a deeper dish wheel. 6mm offset will work just fine. Ordered new HPI vintage wheels advertised as having 6mm and of course they don't fit either. Offset is maybe 1.5mm. Not even close to 6.
(http://www.hpiracing.com/en/part/3821)

The search continues...

[SFC K]

Nice refurb! It looks 100% better from when you got it. I really like that Andy's front bumper and the arm mod you described for the hex mod. Pretty cool stuff!

[Coelacanth]

Ughhh can't catch a break. China wheels were crap and didn't fit properly (hex hub wasn't made properly) PLUS the offset wasn't correct. Did some research and decided I need a deeper dish wheel. 6mm offset will work just fine. Ordered new HPI vintage wheels advertised as having 6mm and of course they don't fit either. Offset is maybe 1.5mm. Not even close to 6.
(http://www.hpiracing.com/en/part/3821)

The search continues...

I think you're misunderstanding wheel offset, or mistaking it for backspacing. The 26mm HPI vintage wheels have zero offset, so the inner hub mounting surface divides the wheel into two equal halves. HPI's 31mm wheels have 6mm more wheel sticking outward from the hub mounting surface, giving it that old-school muscle car "deep dish" look. That's considered negative offset. Modern front-wheel-drive cars have wheels where most of the wheel goes inward from the hubs, so there's almost no dish look at all...the outside of the wheel looks mostly flat or even sticks out. That's positive offset.

So, HPI might've been more correct to say their 31mm wheels have 6mm negative offset, but they are indeed offset by 6mm...on the outside, not inside.

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=101

EDIT: What is the problem you're having? Are the wheels sticking out too far, or in too tight and rubbing the control arms and/or rear carriers? I'm guessing the latter...

[mk-Zero]

Cool car, and nice job on the resto!

I might have missed it, but what body are you going to run?

[n20capri]

Wheels are too far in - thus hitting when the wheels turn. I read RC offset is opposite of how real car offset is calculated...
I watched this vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdaBwBw_Jy0

Either way I sliced and diced the wheels and got them to fit - they look awesome - watched this vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN_yikilGCE

Also, I don't like the 30° caster blocks it's jacking up the steering so I ordered some closer to stock 20° versions...Once these come in I'll be able to dial in the front caster/camber/toe and she'll be ready to go...

Ughhh can't catch a break. China wheels were crap and didn't fit properly (hex hub wasn't made properly) PLUS the offset wasn't correct. Did some research and decided I need a deeper dish wheel. 6mm offset will work just fine. Ordered new HPI vintage wheels advertised as having 6mm and of course they don't fit either. Offset is maybe 1.5mm. Not even close to 6.
(http://www.hpiracing.com/en/part/3821)

The search continues...

I think you're misunderstanding wheel offset, or mistaking it for backspacing. The 26mm HPI vintage wheels have zero offset, so the inner hub mounting surface divides the wheel into two equal halves. HPI's 31mm wheels have 6mm more wheel sticking outward from the hub mounting surface, giving it that old-school muscle car "deep dish" look. That's considered negative offset. Modern front-wheel-drive cars have wheels where most of the wheel goes inward from the hubs, so there's almost no dish look at all...the outside of the wheel looks mostly flat or even sticks out. That's positive offset.

So, HPI might've been more correct to say their 31mm wheels have 6mm negative offset, but they are indeed offset by 6mm...on the outside, not inside.

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=101

EDIT: What is the problem you're having? Are the wheels sticking out too far, or in too tight and rubbing the control arms and/or rear carriers? I'm guessing the latter...

[n20capri]

I didn't get anything new yet...I've got an old Pontiac Grand Prix body that cleaned up ok that I'll use in the meantime...The car is wide though so it's gonna be tough finding something. Again, once I dial in the suspension and finalize ride height and everything I'll take some measurements and get a body...will most likely end up with anything that just fits...lol

This looks to be about the widest I've seen so far with a wheelbase that matches...so we'll see
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PORSCHE-911-FLAT-NOSE-BODY-275mm-KYOSHO-TGX-TGR-RC10-XXX-4-HPI-SUPER-NITRO-RS4-/151209605251?pt=Radio_Control_Vehicles&hash=item2334cb7883

Cool car, and nice job on the resto!

I might have missed it, but what body are you going to run?

[n20capri]

And thanks everyone for the compliments...

[n20capri]

Pics as promised...back on track. Just waiting on female deans to get here so I can finalize wiring. LOVE the old race prep connectors but I'm finding some are not reliable so have to make the switch!





And a couple teasers...







Here's something interesting (perhaps it's common knowledge - a quick search didn't yield anything though)

So originally I had Kyosho fronts on the rear...but ordered some RC10 ebay fronts so everything would match this time around...ended up mounting the original fronts on the rear - then the new ebay fronts on the front...well the suspension was funky...front was all jacked up and I had no travel...thought I put the front end back together. After some closer inspection I realized the shocks bodies were different lengths but not really longer overall (despite the pic - front was compressed a bit). The newer shocks had less travel and was bottoming out. Once I switched them the whole car sat better so it worked out in the end but without putting them side-by-side you can't even tell...definitely weird...I'm sure the AE guru's will chime in with an explanation...

I tried to index the photo's the best I could - you can clearly see the longer body...


Anyway enjoy the pics...