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 Difference between RC10 original, B2, B3, B4 shocks..... 
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Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:38 pm
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Hi:

I know RC10 has a few shocks designs: the RC10 gold shocks (very early versions) are supposed to have the seals loaded externally from the bottom of shocks and the Worlds car shocks have the seals placed internally from inside of the shocks.

How about the B2 or B3 shocks? Are they like the worlds or like the old gold shocks?
:roll:
Some of you must know a lot in this. :)

Thanks in advance. :D


Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:19 am
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you could get gold toploading shocks, too.

all of the pre 1990-91 associated shocks were externally built, after that, they were all internally built......... no matter what color they were or what car they were on.

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Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:15 am
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Yup; anything with a black cap is the top-loading style. They were put on everything starting with the Team Car and 10T. They come in gold and Teflon-coated gray/green, and now blue anodizing has replaced the gold as the base color.

I read an online review of the SC10 the other day; the reviewer actually said he always had problems building Associated shocks. Huh? Tearing o-rings? News to me, they are among the easiest shocks on the market to build. He also said he couldn't get the truck to handle, so he sold it. Pretty much shows what the rest of his review is worth.


Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:01 pm
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I've read reviews in the past that mention the seals are over squeezed by the white spacer being fractionaly oversize. Personaly I think all the AE dampers are freaking awesome. Never had a problem with any of my AE shocks wether they be top or bottom loaders.

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Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:37 pm
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Seriously guys? No problems ever with Associated shocks? No leaking? No build inconsistencies? You can build them the exact same way every time? No O-ring swelling? No plastic clips falling out because of bad body machining? No caps leaking on the top of the original gold shocks? No sloppy piston fit?

Wow, you guys must build shocks way better than me to have never have had a problem with them.



Or, you must not have ever built anything else. IMO, they are the worst shocks on the market in 2010. Everything else out there is a better shock, in my experience. Tamiya, Kyosho, Losi, Schumacher—all make a much better buggy shock. And that's not even including Xray, Serpent, Corally or Mugen shocks, which are all also better build quality and easier to build properly. Go take a look at Kinwald's current cars, and he's not using Associated shocks. There is a big reason for that.



I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

If you think Associated shocks are the best out there, you should really try building some other company's shocks. ;)

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Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:42 pm
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Thanks for all the info :lol:


Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:53 pm
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Eau Rouge wrote:
Seriously guys? No problems ever with Associated shocks? No leaking? No build inconsistencies? You can build them the exact same way every time? No O-ring swelling? No plastic clips falling out because of bad body machining? No caps leaking on the top of the original gold shocks? No sloppy piston fit?

Wow, you guys must build shocks way better than me to have never have had a problem with them.



Or, you must not have ever built anything else. IMO, they are the worst shocks on the market in 2010. Everything else out there is a better shock, in my experience. Tamiya, Kyosho, Losi, Schumacher—all make a much better buggy shock. And that's not even including Xray, Serpent, Corally or Mugen shocks, which are all also better build quality and easier to build properly. Go take a look at Kinwald's current cars, and he's not using Associated shocks. There is a big reason for that.



I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

If you think Associated shocks are the best out there, you should really try building some other company's shocks. ;)

OK, I'll PM you with where to send me an example of each of the aforementioned shocks.


Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:25 pm
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Lucky for you, I got rid of all of the crap Associated made for shocks over the last 20 years. Look on any RC forum around the globe and you'll see you are in a minority. If you want to try other shocks, you'll have to get your head out of the sand and buy something without an Associated label on it.

We ran Kyosho Golds or Deltas on RC10s 25 years ago and nothing has changed since then.



The new shocks on the FT SC10 are a big step for Associated. It is nice to see them finally step into the 21st century with shock design, but that won't help their QC in China. They still need some things to be fixed.

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Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:31 pm
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I've never had a problem with AE shocks seals, best shocks ever in my opinion, such a simple effective design and easy to assemble. Now they had to go and complicate it because people can't follow the instruction manual properly. Do they try installing and removing the seals without the special tool?

Only complaint I have is the stupid unobtainium shafts which snap so easily with no stainless steel option for the B44 front length shafts. I just made SS shafts myself for that though.


Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:11 am
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humm this turned interesting.

my personal experience as far as associated shock would be from 1985 till about 1994.
So i saw the introduction of the bottom load gold shocks right up till you had the teflon coated shocks with the plastic caps, but before they added the bleeder grub screws.

now on those shocks :
i can never remember having a leaking problem unless i damaged the shock during a race. I've bent shock shafts, or had them start to wear out later associated address this with optional hard coated shafts(gold in color)
now i did not like the change over to the blue silicon rubber seals. the harder red rubber o rings i liked better.
I did once have an issue with a blue o-ring welling up, this is why you have to stick with pure silicon shock oils.
some types of shock oil that was not silicon based did cause a swelling issue with the orings.

if you look at other shocks of the day they either stuck with red orings, or black, these rubber o-rings were less sensitive to shock oils but did not seal as well as the softer Blue Silicon O-ring seals.

o-ring tearing i've only seen once it was on the Blue seals and after i would always check the shoch shaft for burrs on the threaded area and grease it slightly before inserting.

No plastic clips falling out because of bad body machining? i've never had this issue, however the plastic clips that you used to push in with the shock tool for top loading shocks needed to be cleaned of burrs well and checked for imperfections. granted its an extra step but if done correctly i've never had an issue that i didn't catch right away. I would always double check the seat of the clip to make sure it was 100% in place.

No caps leaking on the top of the original gold shocks?

these would leak some times later they tried to improve on it by using black o-rings instead of the plastic washers. now it was rare in my experience to see the top cap leaking like crazy unless it was damaged, but i will agree that the later black plastic caps sealed better.

No sloppy piston fit?
this was more or less up to the builder the older shocks could have this issue if you didn't de-burr the piston correctly.
later on the Derlin Shock pistons that required no de-burring were very good and the issue was resolved.

any off-road shock is going to take a beating and need maintenance i would rate Associated shocks high on the list.

you mentioned "Kyosho Golds or Deltas" i've used every shock on the market from the early 80s.
yokomo worse shocks ever.

kyosho gold shocks, very good shock, duratrax ripped them off and made a decent shock that was slightly inferior.

kyosho platinum shocks, excellent shock would rate it just above associated. on par with the later Teflon coated shocks from associated.
kyosho made a great shock in the platinum.

delta shocks, were leaky crap. sorry they were, i think i still have a few different sets in my collection.

Above and beyond, Tamiya CVA platinum shocks and later with Teflon inserts. These things were the mack daddy king of all shocks.
Super smooth, replaceable shock inserts unlike all other shocks when the anodize coating and the teflon coating inside wore away, on the tamiya'a you could replace them.

I will agree that building an associated shock was a bit more involved then slaping together a kyosho or a delta shock, but you had some of the same issues on the kyosho shock because you still had to be careful cutting the red piston and spacer parts from the shock spurs.
and you still had to debur things a little bit.

people didn't have the patients to sit there and do a little more work but they are no where near as inferior as you think they are.

again i'm limited to discussion of the shocks prior to 1994, i can not speak for the current generation of shocks, personally i think the modern associated as a whole fell off a cliff after the introduction of the B2.


Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:28 pm
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I've always like the Associated shocks-- Way better than the Tamiya shocks I saw on The Wild One! 8)

yeah-- the early gold shocks had HORRIBLE cap gaskets-- I found teflon tape worked *better* but wasn't happy with them until the larger/thicker gasket came out around 1990. The later O-ring sealed caps work great for me.

These latest interior-loaded o-rings were a bit foreign to me at first, but they sure seem to work great. As long as the square retaining clip is in good shape-- they hold forever.

Torn o-rings for me only after heavy dirt, wear, or galled shaft (usually from pliers)

As for the bottom ends (shaft)-- I've had/see ANY shock leak here after enough use-- I currently have a set of the Losi shocks on my crawler that have leaked always.

beat anything long enough and it will leak.. ;)


Since we're sort-of on topic-- what's the deal with the 'spring-jackets'? Are they simply a kids balloon?
Image



EDIT-- just found Shock Socks




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Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:30 pm
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Jeep-Power wrote:
Since we're sort-of on topic-- what's the deal with the 'spring-jackets'? Are they simply a kids balloon?
Image
EDIT-- just found Shock Socks

Yeah, Associated had some 'shock boots' in their catalogue for YEARS, I think they were just balloons with their logo printed on them. Not even trimmed, just regular balloons. I think there is a picture of some NIP ones on here someplace.

Here's mine:
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=15411
Image
Image

Up front are the skinny balloon-animal ones, in back are the bigger hotdog ones. I have put them over the springs like in your picture, but they wear out where the coils rub against them. I never tried the skinny ones before, but picked up this packet on a whim, looks like it will work out well. Of course the packet I bought has like 30 yellows but only two blues. Now I'll have to look out for bags of one color.


Sun Apr 25, 2010 1:58 am
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I agree with doug on most of his points, way back in the day I had kyosho golds, far superior to A.E's offerings of the time. The hard coat team shocks were a step in the right direction, and the nitrided or unobtainium shafts helped a lot. I do think A.E. lacked a lot of Q.C. and detail needed on a shock assembly, even back then. I've had lots of pinched silicone rings due to the maching of the body not matching the stacked height of the spacers and o rings. And have had 2 bodies that were machined so poorly they were unuseable, one front damper on my team car that I bought new in '93 and a .56 body that I purchased off the bay about a year ago. Lots and lots of tight shafts due to poorly molded guide bushings or pistons (I think A.E.'s mold quality on a lot of these small parts really sucks). Recently I purchased a set of VCS2 style A.E. dampers and the aluminum rings that secure the top mount and the bladder would not even thread on to the body, (I narrowed this problem down to the rings and not the bodies as an older set seemed fine on the new bodies).

However, I do agree that A.E. shocks can be comparable with any other manufactures shock if they are painstakingly built, and you pick and choose the best spacers bushings and pistons from a couple rebuild kits while you do it. I put about 1-2 hours to build a set of A.E. shocks from parts to run on a dirt oval car to get the same smoothness and consistency that I'll get spending 20 minutes on a set of HPI, Corrally or IRS shocks.


Sat May 22, 2010 2:32 am
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I'm squeezing my velvets as I read this thread. Sooooo nice. Just built a Cougar SV with the new Big Bores on it. Associated needs to step up.
~D

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Tue May 25, 2010 7:20 pm
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what is the full length (full extension) of the .89" and 1.32" shocks? From center of the top hole to center of the bottom hole? What should I look for size wise in mm?

I know that the B4 is .89 for the front, but what can I use in the rear as a modern 1.32" bodied shock?


Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:51 pm
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