New 2014 Beetle build for beach running...opinions appreciated

[ahenderl]

Hello...my name is Adam,
I recently built my 1st Kyosho kit, a re-re Turbo Scorpion and was thoroughly impressed. I do have an original Javelin that I bought a decade ago, disassembled it and reassembled it from scratch...it is now a shelf-queen, however, I never built a new Kyosho kit and it was great fun from start to finish.

In a few weeks I am going to the beach with my family. I have an 8 year old son...almost 9...and I bought him a 4x4 Slash a while back. He's never had the pleasure of running rc on the beach and I'm pretty excited about the trip & we will be taking the Slash with us to play in the sand. When I was just a bit older than he is now...I'm 43...I used to lay awake in bed at night daydreaming of running my Tamiya Hornet (always wanted AE or Kyosho back then, but it wasn't in my family's budget) in the sand. With the upcoming trip I couldn't resist the urge to build a new kit for myself just for beach running.

Soooo...here's my plan...I want this bug to be really fun, crazy fast and built for playing exclusively in the sand. My only goal is to make a fun buggy so that I can bash a bit with my son while we are on vacation. I'm relatively easy on my stuff and have no intention of running it anywhere really wet, but even dry smooth sand can have some moisture. I like the idea that the Beetle has an enclosed electronics shell, even if it isn't truly waterproof. Aside from that I plan to use a Castle Creations waterproof (resistant) esc & motor. I wanted to make a few improvements to the basic kit as well as replace a few parts to make it more salt & water friendly. All of the parts listed below should be here by the end of the week:

Kyosho Beetle kit
Fast Eddy rubber sealed bearing kit
RC Screwz Stainless Steel screw kit
SCW012 Kyosho universal swing shaft kit
SCW013 Kyosho HG shock kit
Turbo Scorpion front & rear tall shock stays for the HG shocks (aluminum)
Turbo Scorpion LWB rear suspension plate & gear box mount (aluminum)
SC257 Turbo Scorpion wide front arm shaft
Turbo Scorpion rear hinge pins & shafts
Castle Creations 1/10 Sensored Mamba X ESC + 1406-5700kV Motor Combo...I know, stupid fast for this buggy but I want to throw ridiculous rooster tails & it can always be dialed back with with the esc or the controller to make it manageable.

Aside from the parts listed above, I ordered a couple extra pairs of front & rear tires as well as satin rear kidney bean wheels (SCH004SC) and Centerline-style satin front wheels (SCH001SC)..I really don't like the yellow wheels that come in the kit.

I plan to do a box-art theme for the paint...maybe not down to every decal and I think I may go with a really bright yellow...kind of in-your-face bright.

If anyone has any suggestions about parts that may help or anywhere I may be going wrong with my build plan I would appreciate it.

This trip has really got me excited. The place we stay is the very last building on the beach before a 4 mile long wildlife preserve that is completely free of beach-goers in the late afternoon and evening...we will have huge open expanses of wide white-sand beaches to tear it up.

Please offer advise & I'll be sure to post pics as I get this Sand-Beetle together.

[Lonestar]

Howdy, and welcome aboard.

Edit: just realized you'd been aboard for years now, but your first sentence and your post count tripped me

The good thing about these cars is they make us remember about our childhood! And playing with a re-re'd childhood dreamcar with our own kids is a fantastic feeling, you'll have much fun

But... the thing is, these scorpion-based rere cars are based on 30 y.o. designs, pre-competition-level cars (the RC10 was the game changer there) and you have to be aware that they will handle poorly, no matter how many high-$ Kyosho hopups you throw at them. These $80 (+ the $ for the needed shock towers...) shocks sure look cool, and if you buy them because it makes you happy, then it's all good. If you do because you think it will make the car perform better, I think you could save yourself the cash and buy a couple of spare batteries instead because that mamba will eat things up fast. These scorpion-based cars, just like tamiya ORV's, are fantastic fun as is because of their imperfections - but can become very frustrating if you start dumping money in them with performance expectations. Which is exactly what Kyosho is hoping you will do...

Net - I would run the thing stock, only with the power upgrades you mentionned. It has ball bearings as standard, run them as they are, if they swallow some sand grains, chuck'em and replace'em after.

My only hop-up suggestion is tires: to run satisfyingly in the sand, try to find some sand-paw-like buggy tires that fit on your car's rear end. I would even look into grasshopper-like tires. Not sure what the rim fit is for the Beetle or those kidney bean wheels, but there must be a way to make it work. Here's the kinda stuff I'm thinking about:

sand paws (I'm sure traxxas and hpi have some, too, basher stuff )


or grasshopper:


Have fun and please share some rooster tail pictures with us when back

[Lowgear]

Definitely going to need some different tires for the rear to aid in traction. Here's a thread that might help: https://www.rc10talk.com/viewtopic.php?t=37080

If you are able to fit the Sand Scorcher type paddles on the rear, it might further help traction if you shave off every other paddle. That will make the tires softer though so foam inserts would be a must. What I would do is bring several sets of rear wheel/tire combos to change out until you find what works the best.

[ahenderl]

Howdy, and welcome aboard.

Edit: just realized you'd been aboard for years now, but your first sentence and your post count tripped me

Yeah...I'm a long time lurker. I kind of faded in and out of the hobby as kids came along & life demanded my focus elsewhere. I joined here a few years ago when the RC10 Classic re-re rumors 1st came out and my search led me to this forum. I picked up a RC10 Classic then but didn't get around to building it until thais past year. While I still consider myself novice, I've been into rc off and on since the mid-80's. I still have the Tamiya Hornet I got for Christmas in 1986 when I was in the 7th grade. Along the way I've accumulated a few toys...a RC10B4, E-Maxx, RC18B, TC5, original Javelin, nib AYK Buffalo, re-re Turbo Scorpion, re-re RC10 and there's probably a couple I'm forgetting.

The thing is...I have never been a racer and never will be. For me, It's all about going into the back yard after a crappy day of work and feeling 12 again. I think that is why I really love the re-re's...they have made the dream-toys of my past accessible. The technology in that latest race buggies is great but the cars have no soul. They all look like a bunch of alien buggies. Sure they may get around a track faster, but I don't care. I can remember the printed ads for almost every car made from 1985 to the early 90's. I would read every issue of RC Car Action & RC Modeler (which had very little surface content, but it did run ads) over and over. At that time anything beyond my humble Hornet was not even an option. Not to sound self-pitying, I felt I was a cut above the Grasshopper crowd...lol. I appreciate the fact that Tamiya, AE, Kyosho, Schumacher & maybe others have realized that some of us 40+ farts are now old enough to be nostalgic about our youth and have a few dollars to spend to try to recapture a bit of it.

As far as the Beetle, I have no dreams of making it competitive with a modern high-end buggy. However, I did score all of the Turbo Scorpion pieces such as the extended shock stays, the LWB suspension & gear box mount plates, etc for $18 total. The were all new, but removed from a kit...assume the guy was building his kit but adding the option carbon fiber pieces. I did buy the shocks retail, but dang they sure are pretty. I was thinking that better, longer shocks and a little more wheelbase at the least wouldn't hurt stability in a go-fast Beetle.

Oh, I have a set of the Sand Paws you pictured for my B4. Of course, they are 2.2. They did good in fluffy powdery sand in a straight line. They propelled the car forward very well but had no lateral traction. Also, where we go I usually run rc in the late afternoon as the beach gets less crowded. The beach is really wide and I run mostly in very smooth sand that was previously wet but kind of hard...it's a lot like running on a baseball infield, but it's sand instead of dirt. I can make long high speed passes, build jumps, drift and just drive like an all-around maniac. It may sound odd, but in the past on this type of sand my ProLine Hole Shots always did great on my B4. With that being the case, would you think the stock Beetle tires do ok?

My parts should start arriving tomorrow...I'll post again as I start the build...it's fun getting excited about toys again.

[ahenderl]

Edit to myself. I see that I actually joined here in 2007...a long time before the RC10 re-re. I must have been digging for info about the Jay Halsey 1984 ROAR car. Dang, that two page spread in RC Modeler used to keep me up at night. It only took me until I was 43 to finally build an RC10 that was what I wanted as a kid.

[Lonestar]

The thing is...I have never been a racer and never will be. For me, It's all about going into the back yard after a crappy day of work and feeling 12 again. I think that is why I really love the re-re's...they have made the dream-toys of my past accessible. The technology in that latest race buggies is great but the cars have no soul. They all look like a bunch of alien buggies. Sure they may get around a track faster, but I don't care. I can remember the printed ads for almost every car made from 1985 to the early 90's. I would read every issue of RC Car Action & RC Modeler (which had very little surface content, but it did run ads) over and over. [...] I appreciate the fact that Tamiya, AE, Kyosho, Schumacher & maybe others have realized that some of us 40+ farts are now old enough to be nostalgic about our youth and have a few dollars to spend to try to recapture a bit of it.

No worries. you're with friends here (even if some of us are racers, too - best of both worlds is racing the new stuff AND bashing with the old stuff in the yard with the kids)

[ahenderl]

Parts started coming in this weekend. I'm waiting on my stainless screw kit (which should be here today) to start building the kit. I decided to wait on the stainless screws b/c this buggy will be a dedicated sand/beach toy.

The Mamba X ESC is a little large, but it will just fit inside the tub with the lid in place. There is room above the fan to circulate air onto the esc, but if it were any larger I would probably have to remove the fan. I know sand gets into everything, but I dig that the way the electronics are somewhat enclosed on the Beetle. The esc & motor are advertised as waterproof so they should make a good combo for beach running.

I decided to for forgo the yellow wheels that came in the kit. The satin aluminum, to me, looks a lot more scale correct. The kidney-beans in the rear and Centerlines in the front scream 1970's sand beetle. Gotta love the huge Good Year lettering on the tires...especially the rear.

These are the re-re Turbo Scorpion pieces that will allow use of the longer Turbos Scorpion or option HG shocks as well as the chassis extension pieces, hard rear trailing arm pivots, etc. I don't know if I'll use the wide Turbo Scorpion front arm shaft pictured. It would require longer tie rods which isn't a big deal, however the extra width may make the front track look too wide on a Beetle and I don't want to ruin the scale appearance. If it doesn't look bad I'll use it. Every little bit of extra width should help b/c this thing should be a screamer on packed hard sand. The esc & 5700 kv motor are 3s capable, but I don't know if a 30 year old design is up to that...even with a few built-in improvements. I'll start with 2s which is probably still way more that its capabilities and dial it back if necessary. I'm thinking sand-running should be a little more forgiving anyway...even if it is more damaging from a corrosive standpoint.

[Dadio]

If you ever want to run it on a hard surface you will want the soft compound front tyres , if it's like my scorpion then the kit front tyres are like plastic and have no grip at all on road , they even sound dreadful on road ! , On sand you might not tell the difference as it's all mechanical grip not chemical grip but on road you'll have the front tyres !

[ahenderl]

If you ever want to run it on a hard surface you will want the soft compound front tyres , if it's like my scorpion then the kit front tyres are like plastic and have no grip at all on road , they even sound dreadful on road ! , On sand you might not tell the difference as it's all mechanical grip not chemical grip but on road you'll have the front tyres !

I agree. There no way the hard front tires in the kit will grip at all on a hard surface. The front tires in my Turbo Scorpion kit were relatively soft, but these Beetle front tires are ridiculously hard. I am going to take them with me to the beach just to see how they do in the sand. One positive about the hardness is that I doubt they will distort at high speed.

[ahenderl]

Got started last night...

The taller Turbo Scorpion rear shock towers were making contact with the body mount brace, so I had to remove a bit of material to get the brace to clear the tower. This probably would not have been necessary if you use the stock Beetle towers with the extended chassis pieces or if you use the tall shock towers and do not extend the chassis, however, if you do both the tower has to be ground or filed down a bit. I don't know why but these two pics are rotated 90 degrees in this post even though they appear normal on my computer when I attach them.

I'll also have to trim the body a bit in the front to make room for the longer HG shocks. They are still in transit so that will have to wait until they get here.

In this last pic you can see where the Mamba X has to be mounted inside the tub. It's not taped in place yet, but it just barely fits with space above the fan. You can't really see in the pic, but the rear two screws on the corner of the fan sit right up against the underside of the lid at the back where it steps down. If the esc or fan were any taller it would not fit with removing the fan.

[NomadRacer]

Looking really good, might have to get a kit myself!

[ahenderl]

A couple of nights ago I was able to get the electronics all sorted out.

Because of the height and overall size of the Mamba esc, I had to cut the antenna support. Originally, it had a platform extending forward to which you are supposed to tape the esc switch. With the switch mounted on the platform, you can cut an opening in the tub cover and switch the esc on and off without removing the cover. This ended up not being an issue because my esc battery leads are so short that the connector had to be located inside the tub anyway, so I'll have to remove the cover to disconnect the battery. I ended up using one of the esc corner screws to hard mount the switch...I don't like using tape for the switch.

I ran the three motor leads through the opening in the bottom of the tub. There wasn't enough room to route the sensored lead through the same opening so I had to trim an opening in the tub cover. In the following pics you can see the opening I cut in the lid and the routing of the wires. Also, I decided to leave the lid clear. With it clear I can easily see if the fan is operating or not as well as any indicator lights flashing on the esc without having to remove it.

The kit came with two front bumpers. The wide bumper may provide more protection, but the tube-style bumper looked a little more scale correct so I went that route.

[ahenderl]

Painted the body yesterday. I used Tamiya PS-06 yellow, backed with Pactra florescent racing yellow backed with sprint white. It's a little brighter than the box art, but it's not quite fluorescent either. You can see that the yellow is a bit brighter than the yellow wheels that came with the kit.

Before painting the body, I decided to run the car bodiless. I can say that without a doubt, that the front tires are pretty much useless on hard concrete or asphalt. They are just way too hard. Even with the 5700 Mamba cut back to 50% with the controller you just couldn't steer. I have soft and medium compound tires on the way, but I wanted to see just how quick the car was and it was a futile effort to try to drive it at all. I ended up swapping the front tires from my re-re Turbo Scorpion onto the Beetle and they made all the difference in the world. Even on my concrete driveway (which is slightly textured), I was able to increase the power back up to 75% and could steer moderately well. That's with the 1.5" Beetle wheels and tires that came in the kit still on the rear.

I'm getting short on time before we go to the beach and am unsure of whether the inability to control the Beetle was because of the tire compound or the wheel diameter, or most likely a combination of both. So, yesterday I ordered a set of 2.2" front medium compound & rear soft compound tires for the Beetle. To mount the tires, I ordered a set of Turbo Scorpion wheels but in stain chrome. To me the satin chrome just has a much more realistic look.

We'll try both the softer compounds in stock size as well as the 2.2's and see what happens. Regardless, I don't see why Kyosho includes such hard front tires in the kit. Even with a very mild motor they are just too hard to get any grip on a hard surface. Medium compound tires would be a better all-around tire.

[ahenderl]

Here are some (mostly) finished pics...still painting driver figure.

I kind of went mostly box-art and then dug through all of my old decal sheets to add a few more. I was stoked to find the Centerline wheel decals in a repo Javelin decal set I bought a decade ago. It seemed a necessary addition with the Centerline-style solid front wheels.

[ahenderl]

Driver in...done except for inbound tires & wheels. Even still, she's a runner...