Optima - Servo Mount

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NegativeGhostRider
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Optima - Servo Mount

Post by NegativeGhostRider »

I recently found a vintage optima someone gave me over 20 years ago. It's missing lots of parts, but I have been restoring it over the past couple of weeks.

One thing that seems a bit odd is that the steering servo was only held in place by a plastic tie wrap. It seems like there ought to be a part that could be used to rigidly affix the servo to the frame. I've checked ebay and haven't found one that appears to be designed for the Optima.

Can someone point me to a part for this? What other solutions have people used?

Thanks!

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XLR8
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Re: Optima - Servo Mount

Post by XLR8 »

Hello and welcome to the forum.
As it happens, I was just doing this last night; mounting the servo in a vintage Optima. So, yeah, It's kinda lame but they're mounted to a plate via servo tape and tie wrap and this assembly hangs from the chassis top plate. Not the best way but times have changed. If you look at the re-released car, Kyosho has created a proper mount that holds the servo with screws alone. I haven't check into it but I'd bet you could modify your vintage top plate to accept this new mount.
Doug

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Re: Optima - Servo Mount

Post by XLR8 »

The new mount is on tree OT205 and there's one posted on ebay right now:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Kyosho-Optima-Battery-Holder-OT205/323264517965?epid=24010862452&hash=item4b4411174d:g:3FsAAOSwfLxbAQVA:sc:USPSFirstClass!35058!US!-1

Or, you could order if from Kyosho America:
http://www.kyoshoamerica.com/search.asp?keyword=ot205&search.x=0&search.y=0&search=GO

The cool thing is that this tree also includes some other parts that you could probably use. For instance, it includes the flat battery mounts which will be needed if you plan to run your car with lipo batteries and the front bumper plate brace (these typically get bent and broken on well-used vintage cars).
Attachments
Optima servo mount vintage.JPG
Optima servo mount update.JPG
Doug

NegativeGhostRider
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Re: Optima - Servo Mount

Post by NegativeGhostRider »

XLR8 wrote: Mon May 28, 2018 11:08 am The new mount is on tree OT205 and there's one posted on ebay right now:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Kyosho-Optima-Battery-Holder-OT205/323264517965?epid=24010862452&hash=item4b4411174d:g:3FsAAOSwfLxbAQVA:sc:USPSFirstClass!35058!US!-1

Or, you could order if from Kyosho America:
http://www.kyoshoamerica.com/search.asp?keyword=ot205&search.x=0&search.y=0&search=GO

The cool thing is that this tree also includes some other parts that you could probably use. For instance, it includes the flat battery mounts which will be needed if you plan to run your car with lipo batteries and the front bumper plate brace (these typically get bent and broken on well-used vintage cars).
Excellent. This is exactly what I needed to know.

Next time, I'll check the manual for the rerelease and see whether that gives me the info. Based on the rere manual, it looks like the servo mount is shaped like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jazrider-Aluminum-Servo-Mount-Gun-Metal-Set-For-Kyosho-Optima-2016-RC-Buggy/351813572231?hash=item51e9b91687:g:Dn8AAOSw-itXtYOa

I had seen that one on ebay last night, but it looked too big to fit under the deck. But based on the manual pics you posted, I am guessing it is probably the same shape/size. Since I like the aluminum, I think I'll take a chance on one of these and see how it works.

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Re: Optima - Servo Mount

Post by XLR8 »

I've found that most re-release parts are a direct fit to the vintage cars (or they will fit with slight modification). That aluminum servo mount should fit okay. The only worry I have is that there is a large (and needless) hole in the vintage Optima's top plate that will be very near where a front screw hole is required for the new mount. This might cause some problems if perhaps you're not able to shift the servo rearward a few mm's. Either way, I think it's worth trying. A loose servo can make an RC very hard to control.
Anyway, please keep us updated and feel free to post some photos of your car... we like photos. :D
Doug

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Re: Optima - Servo Mount

Post by NegativeGhostRider »

Here are some pics:
Current state of the build
Current state of the build
New oil
New oil
New servo
New servo
New motor (pinion has WAY too many teeth, lol)
New motor (pinion has WAY too many teeth, lol)
Bent swing shaft
Bent swing shaft
New swing shaft installed
New swing shaft installed
Thanks for the help, thus far.

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Re: Optima - Servo Mount

Post by XLR8 »

I think I recognize those zip-lock bags with the sharpie pen writing. Did they come from ebay member nitro-master? I needed a few of those same parts to complete a couple Optima builds lately and most of the parts arrived in bags just like yours from nitro-master.
Okay so I see you have some re-release transmission gears. Since your planning to install those in your car, I can help since I just went through this process with a Javelin runner posted elsewhere on this forum. For the re-release, Kyosho not only switched the gears from 32 pitch (.8 Mod) to 48 pitch, they've also changed the top shaft (and slipper assembly) and they've increased the bearing size on the diffs. So, in addition to the parts shown in the first photo, you'll need the counter gear, top shaft and slipper assembly, the rear diff assembly, and the transmission case. I think I got all of these parts from the same ebay seller and the price was reasonable. The new trans case will fit all of your vintage aluminum plates, suspension arm pins, etc. and your chain will continue to work with the new diff sprocket. Oh, and of course you'll need a 48 pitch motor pinion to mesh with that new spur gear. It's a lot of work but I think it's worth it as it provides a transmission that is much improved over the vintage one.
Also, you may want to keep that bent swing shaft (or dog bone) for a spare as it can be easily straightened.
Doug

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Re: Optima - Servo Mount

Post by NegativeGhostRider »

Thanks for all the info. Those parts are from nitro-master and I was contemplating upgrading to the slipper clutch, but I did not realize all that it entails.

After I took that picture, I found the original spur gear. So all I need to restore it to the original configuration, I think, is the pinion gear.

What are the benefits of the slipper clutch? Are the replacement gears likely to last longer? Can/should I use a brushless motor with it?

Also, I need to buy a speed controller. Any recommendation here? Thanks.

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Re: Optima - Servo Mount

Post by XLR8 »

There are others here who know a lot more about Kyosho RC's than I do but it's my opinion that, if your stock gears are in good shape, you probably can safely run a mild to moderate brushless setup. For my cars I won't run anything wilder than 10.5 and 2s. With the re-re metal 48 pitch gears, perhaps you could run just about any kind of brushless setup on the market. The slipper will act like a fuse and protect the rest of the drive train from extreme loads or shock. For the ESC, I don't race so I'm fine with a low-cost senserless systems. I've been having good luck finding used Associated XP ESC's from ebay. I have many of them ranging from 45 through 90 amp. I've been running them for about four years now and have yet to see one fail. They can be programmed without a card (options are limited though) and used ones are posted on ebay from time to time for less than 30 bucks. The only downside is, for the 70 amp and higher models, the motor and battery wires are really thick and this can make it a bit of a challenge to fit them into a 4wd buggy with limited space. I found this to be the case with the Optima Mid and Schumacher CAT.
I still have brushed motors and escs from bitd but I don't run them due to constant maintenance requirements; brushless has made me lazy. :lol:
Doug

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Re: Optima - Servo Mount

Post by Coelacanth »

If you're planning to run a mild modern brushless system, without trying to hybridize old parts with new re-re Optima parts, you should look for some parts to essentially turn your Optima into a Turbo Optima.

You'll want to replace the stock solid counter gear with an OT-74 Limiter Gear. There were 2 variations, one with a thick spring (that's the kind I use on my Optimas) and one with 3 or more thin spring washers; I've heard the latter isn't the best.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/OT-74-Limiter-Gear-Set-Kyosho-Turbo-Optima-Salute-Optima-Javelin/401544881202

This gear isn't a true slipper assembly, but it does protect the gears somewhat when landing jumps.

Try to find a hard final pinion gear, OT-76; Thorp also makes a steel upgrade gear...the stock raw aluminum final pinion gear wears out way too easily.

If you have the money, convert to belt drive and you shouldn't need to frequently be adjusting your chain tension anymore, or remove links when the chain stretches.

Use the "Punch" setting in any modern ESC and motor combo to limit the torque hitting your drivetrain; this will act as a sort of slipper gear when your car doesn't really have one.

For a pinion gear, Kyosho offered 8T to 12T hardened pinions, but that was I think partly to protect the gears from the torque of the LeMans 240S and 240SB motors on 8.4V 7-cell power, which was pretty powerful for the time. I run a 12T with my Barney car as it has tire diameter slightly oversized when compared to stock, and I'm using a 16T with my CYANide on-road Optima conversion, which has somewhat undersized tire diameter due to the HPI VTA wheels & tires. I made a gear ratio calculator that factors in transmission ratio and final drive ratio to get an estimated optimal rollout ratio, and the hypothetical optimal pinion gear for the stock Optima with stock Turbo Optima 2.0" wheels and knobby tires would be 12T, but you could gear up or down a tooth if you were looking for better top speed or better acceleration. If you're using modern 2.2" wheels & tires, you could probably go down to an 11T pinion. This assumes you're using the original 41T spur gear and not some aftermarket overdrive or underdrive gear set.

I did all of those mods to bulletproof my 2 resto-modded Optimas, CYANide and Barney. The latter car runs a Tacon 11T motor with belt drive. You should have no issues with a motor/ESC combo in the 13T - 13.5T range.
Completed projects: CYANide Onroad Optima | Zebra Gold Optima | Barney Optima | OptiMutt RWD Mid
Gallery - Coel's Stalls: Marui Galaxy & Shogun Resto-Mods | FrankenBuff AYK Buffalo | 1987 Buick GNX RC12L3

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Re: Optima - Servo Mount

Post by XLR8 »

Wow, I wasn't aware that the limiter gear was a Turbo Optima feature. I'd just assumed that it was included with all Optimas. That's cool!
And I totally agree with you about switching to a belt. My Javelin runner will be switched over as soon as the parts arrive. I'm not terribly interested in nostalgia, I want low maintenance and the belt should be virtually maintenance free.
Doug

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Re: Optima - Servo Mount

Post by XLR8 »

... sure enough

Optima:
Counter gear Optima.JPG
Turbo Optima:
Counter gear Turbo Optima.JPG
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Re: Optima - Servo Mount

Post by NegativeGhostRider »

So here's my q (for either of you): Does the slipper clutch of the re re do a good job protecting the gears?

The reason I ask is that I asked the guy at my local RC shop if I should do the upgrade and get a modern brushless motor and esc and he said it doesn't always work and it would probably result in less durability rather than more. Opinions on whether he's right or wrong?

TIA


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Re: Optima - Servo Mount

Post by XLR8 »

NegativeGhostRider wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 11:33 pm So here's my q (for either of you): Does the slipper clutch of the re re do a good job protecting the gears?

The reason I ask is that I asked the guy at my local RC shop if I should do the upgrade and get a modern brushless motor and esc and he said it doesn't always work and it would probably result in less durability rather than more. Opinions on whether he's right or wrong?

TIA
So, please correct me if I'm wrong... Your local guy is effectively saying that by rolling out the re-release Kyosho has upgraded the transmission from plastic gears with a torque limiter to metal gears with a true slipper clutch and the result is less durability?
Doug

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