Tc3 "O" ?

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Lonestar
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Re: Tc3 "O" ?

Post by Lonestar »

tiens, t'es la, toi? :mrgreen:

Sorry, just polluting your thread, I have no more info that you about the tc3 "O" other than it also was closely linked to the infancy of the Durango, which you prolly know about already.

Paul

PS: I think I figured out wtf was so dang wrong with my B4.1 last time... Will tell you more in a few ds :)
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heretic
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Re: Tc3 "O" ?

Post by heretic »

Quick update of my fiddlings with the car. I'll make a much as I can this weekend cause it's the only free time I'll have. I've observed the stering geometry a lot and still haven't found a perfectly satisfying way of mouting everything. There are lots of things to think about, actually.

Steering throw, symmetry, ackermann, bumpsteer, servo position, use of tc3 steering rack or b3 parts, use of the steering knuckles extensions or not, alu or plastic knuckles, angle of the steering linkages, possible conflict with the center shaft, etc... but I'm confident I'll end up with something nice eventually.

There are other minor problems to be adressed among which : outer hinge pins that come out easily ( i'm not too fond of the " flat on the pin + grubscrew" solution), plastic steering knuckles having their threads ruined all the time ( something tc3 users are used to), and other things I can't think of right now.

Overall it has to be said that the manufacturing of the car is WAY below the level we're used to, even considering the car has almost 10 years. It's still a nice and original concept, but if it was'nt off road I would'nt have bothered spending all that bloody dremeling time to make the car just usable. Onroad requires a much higher level of accuracy. Seriously, even for 20th century off road- and for my rather high personal tolerance- it's at the limit of usable.

For instance the front gear case and in fact the whole front end sits ridiculously high, giving a weird upward angle to the center shaft, too high of a roll center IMHO, the droop values you get by following the manual are so absurd that I won't even mention them. I spent a lot of time playing with different lenghts of ball cups to get something OK. My front shock tower is drilled asymetrically, or is it the delrin part holding it ? or both ? Hard to say . Each A-arm is just unique and I decided not to look too closely on them cause I'm pretty sure 1 hinge pin hole out of 4 is misaligned. I could go on...

Anyway I took the car apart and will clean it in order to rethink some things and take pix if -and only if- you're interested.

Paul : oui chuis là avec une charette toute dremelisée de plus... haha ! Your b4 wasn't THAT bad... I know you were not up to your pretentions but the overall 2wd level has risen up this winter- thankfully.

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heretic
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Re: Tc3 "O" ?

Post by heretic »

BTW by looking at the pix of the v1 proto 59 burst has posted, I can only be skeptical about the front end setup.

Green springs ( super soft, esp. for 4wd) with the inner shock position on the arm ? Come on, with such a weird choice, even without being a setup guru you HAVE to smell that something wrong is going on here. :roll: Did I mention too high of a roll center ? oOple has many pictures of 4wd buggies side by side and their inner A arms hinge pins are perhaps 5 or 8 mm lower than the stock tc3 O on every single "real" manufactured car on the market.

Now that I have tested my own lowered front end with much more common spring choice, I am even more confident I did the right thing. :twisted:

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Re: Tc3 "O" ?

Post by jetblack »

Any update? interested in seeing more of this car. Thanks

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Re: Tc3 "O" ?

Post by Erich Reichert »

I'll try and get some pics posted (after I post stuff from the VONATS that is lol) of my TC3O. I reviewed it for RC Driver back in early 05 and then ran it in the ROAR electirc nats. It was a very heavy car in comparison to the then new BJ4 but its suspension was very plush and had a very low roll center because of it. I still race mine every now and then but replaced the body with a JConcepts Worlds body I had laying around. I have also swapped out the tub chassis for an IRS graphite chassis but not it flexes a little more than I'd like. Someday I'll finish the build on it but needless to say I'm a one legged man in an ass kicking contest lately lol.

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heretic
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Re: Tc3 "O" ?

Post by heretic »

Erich Reichert wrote:I'll try and get some pics posted .
Oh yes pleeeease !

No update on my part, I 've had very little time to play with RC cars lately.
I still haven't given up on giving the car a better steering, though.

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heretic
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Re: Tc3 "O" ?

Post by heretic »

At last some updates !

The car is still not quite finished but I'm confident I'll get there eventually. I have this tendency to try and improve the areas where I feel it's needed, although it will take hours, not necessarily be pretty, and I may use the car for like 5 battery packs in the next 15 years. But hey, I can't help myself, and it's also one of the reasons why I seem to take enjoyement in this hobby. On this particular car, a lot of things needed to be adressed and even when they are the car won't be great. But as a TC3 owner, well, I kind of had to have one...

So here's a list of what I have done so far :

- Massively lowered wing mounts with Kyosho #LA213 items - thanks for the tip M-vice ! ( the stock setup uses Losi ones and make the wing sit ridiculously high, forcing you to use RCPD's own lowered and ugly wing) I will eventually make CF part but for now it works perfect.
- Lowered front transmission case allowing the center shaft to work flat
- Lowered hinge pin mounts to lower the front roll center (stock setup is just absurd)
- Optimized front shock travel ( up and down) and spring preload ( long rod ends and HPI spring retainer)
- Much improved rigidity at the front of the car by adding 2 side rods
- improved flex at the rear (stock version is stiff as a brick, a problem well known by TC3 users)
- slightly improved steering geometry-though there is still work to do (I.e. bumpsteer management + overall steering throw still insufficient)
- Lowered front CF plate ( gets rid of unnecessary spacers and looks better, also allows the body to sit lower)
- Ground down battery bar ( to lower the body)
- Aftermarket ( unknown brand) lowered motor heatsink ( guess why)
- Lowered body ( by almost 10mm ! I still need to cut the excess on the body)


To-do:

Install a CF nerf bar between the front CF plate and the rear CF plate that I added ( it's a piece of a broken B44 upper plate that I found in the trash bin at my track ) because the longitudinal flex is still way too high and there's a risk of bending the center shaft in that case. The previous owner has already bent it a little (GRR) and though it is still usable, eventually I'll make a new one.

-Improve the steering for good.

Any comment welcome !
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Re: Tc3 "O" ?

Post by Lonestar »

Not bad at all :) you do sure have a creative side to your personality... shame on the PETA stickies though :twisted:

Are you trying to get it ready for this winter to battle it with the locals on the hard jumps? I can't wait to see it!

Paul
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heretic
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Re: Tc3 "O" ?

Post by heretic »

Lonestar wrote: shame on the PETA stickies though :twisted:
Glad you don't like it. :roll:

Lonestar wrote:

Are you trying to get it ready for this winter to battle it with the locals on the hard jumps? I can't wait to see it!

Paul


Well, I'm still debating whether or not I'm going to race it "for real". 4wd SIORC can be pretty rough and the car is approximately 6,72 times less tough than, say, a ' rango... I'll probably bring it on friday evenings once or twice just so I could say I ran it, but not much more.

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Re: Tc3 "O" ?

Post by Lonestar »

heretic wrote:
Well, I'm still debating whether or not I'm going to race it "for real". 4wd SIORC can be pretty rough and the car is approximately 6,72 times less tough than, say, a ' rango... I'll probably bring it on friday evenings once or twice just so I could say I ran it, but not much more.
Aw c'mon... you'll be the only guy running a proto BOTH in 2wd and 4wd. As I said earlier, I have a lot of respect for your work (not for the PETA stickies though), now running this in 4wd like if it were 2003, that'd be awesome! you just need a pallet of front arms :mrgreen:

Paul
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TC3 "O" Designer

Post by DJ1978 »

I am the owner of RC Product Designs and the Designer of the TC3 "O". A friend sent me a link to this discussion the other day. I am glad to hear you like the car.
A few things I will tell you about it.
It is now in the 3rd generation with a full carbon fiber chassis and a slipper clutch designed in. I am VERY proud to have been one of the first to convert a TC3 into a competitive 4 wheel drive Off Road buggy.
Associated was VERY cooperative and supportive of my efforts but not interested in working with me. The BJ4 team was working with Associated on their design about the same time I was, so that is understandable.
We did sponsor a couple of drivers in the UK when I first finished the car. Neil Craigg (SP?) was leading the European and British points championship 4 races in, when his primary sponsor
(Associated) requested he find another 4 wheel drive buggy to finish the season with.
The car is very competitive. VERY durable and you can still get parts for it. so I suggest RACE IT!!! I still have bodies for it also.
Have you checked out the parts availability on the RCPD website?
If there is anything I can do to help you have fun with this car let me know.
Dan

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Re: Tc3 "O" ?

Post by noony »

Welcome to the form Dan,its good to see another Michigander :mrgreen: now go get a vintage car so we can get some old school racing going.

Ron

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Re: Tc3 "O" ?

Post by DJ1978 »

I have some vintage stuff... Not sure if I want to race them....

mark in wi
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Re: Tc3 "O" ?

Post by mark in wi »

Is this conversion still around?? I have a tc3 that i never really did much with and would like to be able to make something my son could play with.

Thanks
Mark

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Re: Tc3 "O" ?

Post by THEYTOOKMYTHUMB »

mark in wi wrote:Is this conversion still around?? I have a tc3 that i never really did much with and would like to be able to make something my son could play with.

Thanks
Mark
There are probably easier things to come up with for him. And cheaper. :wink: It is a very cool car though. I remember reading thru this thread and then it got buried. I like it when old threads like this get a friendly bump. This site is information overload sometimes. I've definitely forgotten more stuff than I've learned. :oops: :lol:
"The world looks so much better through beer goggles: Enjoy today, you never know what tomorrow may bring."
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