Lonestar's Stealth CE runner :)

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Lonestar
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Lonestar's Stealth CE runner :)

Post by Lonestar »

Hey Guys

This one is the quickest restoration project I’ve actually done in a while… 3 weeks from receiving the box to hitting the racetrack! Well, it’s a bit more complex than this, here’s the whole story ;)

This is a car that was bought on a non-us forum as a “fully restored runner” RC10 Stealth CE car. I instantly got interested as stealth cars are not so easy to get for a decent price these days, and the fact that it had (theoretically…) gone through the right amount of TLC before and had an aftermarket steering installed was making it a perfect candidate for my stud farm. I haggled the price down a bit as the car had a body and wheel set I didn’t like, so I landed it for a decent price without those bits.

When it got home, there were a few good surprises: this is one of the very latest CE’s, actually a poor man’s Worlds car, with a (straight) C-stamp chassis, reinforced “X” rear arms, shortened rear bulkhead, and the likes. The steering is nice and tight and that graphite link looks like it provides an interesting, non-stock ackermann effect (less, it seems). A friendly posted kindly pointed out below that this is an A&L setup - so be it! This is one I didn't have in my collection :)
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The tranny was super smooth, a good start, and the suspension, although non slop-free, feels about right

On the bad surprises side: one of the dogbones is shot and makes the whole thing shake like when the wheels turn. And the suspension sticks like crazy, everything seems to be binding/sticking, not sure where from… there might be more work than initially thought…

I had some electronics lined up for this project already:
- KO 1004 fet
- Novak M1C
- LRP “unknown” at that time White E. mill
- Radio TBC

This resto started with fitting electronics in… the 1004 got in, I had to mix servo posts, double sided-tape and a homemade link to get it in there as half of the ears (the wrong side :( ) were cut already. I also mounted a Kimbro saver, as there is none built in the A&L bellcranks.

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hen time to position the lipo in there… problem, the stock front cup placement is too short, so I had to drill the chassis and taper the two wholes to make the 3800 Orion fit in there. It feels REALLY weird to drill a gold tub, I felt like I was doing something forbidden, like profanating a cemetary or something! The lipo fits, but just.

Then the speedo. I actually picked the M1C vs. the miscellaneous 410 versions I had in stock because, well, it fits on the chassis, and I hate the very idea of mounting it on the shock tower if I can get it lower in there. Plus the M1C has a decent power output and should be enough for…
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… that almost brand new LRP White E that I had in my bags. Some knowledgeable folks on this forum told me it was a 15quad which is perfect for a 2WD! And for that M1C too :) Off to the comm lathe it went for a satin finish like only a vintage lathe can do, with brand new Orion enduro brushes (not necessarily looking for the utmost power).
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Regarding the radio, it was a bit of a hassle to find one that made sense. I wanted to use my Airtronics XL2P in there, only to find out that I didn’t have a receiver for it (soon fixed, thanks Todd!). I then tried a futaba Magnum that I bought with its rx a few years back… I turned it on, nothing worked. After trying a few receivers and xtals set, it appeared that the Tx really was the culprit (that’s kinda rare). I definitely wanted a radio with dualrates and EPA’s as this is the base condition to get the proper radio installation and allow some tuning from the driver’s stand at the track… In the end, I installed a 40Mhz Graupner (actually JR) Alpina in there. This is not truly period correct (it’s a bit too old of a radio, appeared in 86 iirc) but the receiver is HUGE and there aren’t twenty chassis it can fit in… but it’s a perfect fit for the gold tub! I had to wrap the ludicrous antenna length around a piece of lexan before it goes in the white antenna holder. This went into history as the first JR “pistol” radio, JR was actually the last one to get into that market after KO (EX-I), Sanwa/Airtronics (Machine A/1), Futaba (Magnum series)… it doesn’t feel completely wrong but it isn’t full right either, the trigger has too long a brake throw for my average-sized left hand. The wheel is cool with its brushed aluminium cap, and overall it still feels like a well thought out radio from 1986. Matching this with the M1C required some thinking, as there was no such thing as 1-touch setup bitd, and it was a bit of a PITA to make sure all the end-points “match” as the bands seem completely off from one component to another…
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For the body, it’s a classic Protech painted by Polyracing Graphix, not his finest piece as he did it as an early effort but it’s a good one still, and more than anything else he did a B4.1 with the same scheme at the very same time, both cars look awesome next to each other and get quite some looks at the track! The wing is a stock Traxxas wing as I have piles of them, and the whole thing received a mix of old and new stickies, including some rc10talk ones ;) I had a bit of a personnal challenge cutting it around the rear shocks, but I managed in the end.
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As I was checking the transmission overall, I had the feeling something was not right with the slipper/diff combo. It appeared that the two little 4-40 BHS that hold the spur in place on the outer slipper disc were hitting the inner disc – basically the slipper would be either locked or loose, with the pad floating helplessly… it was an easy fix, I also grabbed the opportunity to resurface the pad that was slightly glazed. Interestingly, my used RC10T had the exact same issue when I bought it…Again, a living proof that most people don’t have a clue about properly assembling cars, including those who boast that they have a “fully restored runner” (rolleyes). At least the diff feels right, I suspect the previous owner used completely new parts.

For wheels and tires, the only fluo yellow ones I had were worlds 3-piece fronts with some classic 4 ribs on there, and the rears have Schum green (I think) minispikes. More of a dirt setup than indoors carpet/polished floor, but that’ll do for now.
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Once the trims were adjusted, it was time for an early shakedown run in the yard! Instantly the car showed potential, with a very healthy handling although a bit shaky (binding suspension sure didn’t help). The 15 quad has a wide powerband, and grip is decent (I also tried some TF310’s up front but they gave too much front grip and the car lost its balance). Time to go to step 2, ie get the suspension sorted!

After gathering some setup info on rc10talk (30/25, black/greens, #1’s – thanks Jharris ;) ), I pulled the shocks apart thinking it’d just be an easy job. The previous owner guaranteed me he’d just had the shocks redone… yeah right. They were full of dirt even in the “cartdridge” part, I mean 15 year old compacted grime that wouldn’t go away no matter what chemical or gun barrel cleaning brush I used… so there’s still a tiny little bit of dirt from BITD in there… but there’s also a brand new set of greenslim’ed o-rings and teflon shims, snap rings, and all. The shafts have been polished to a chrome finish, the grimed shock ends have been replaced with new ones, the plastic shock balljoints have been renewed too, the silver and blue springs were replaced by black/green ones. NOW, the shocks are as smooth as a baby's ass and the car is beginning to feel plush like it should
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For the secondary transmission, I eventually replaced the dogbones by a brand spanking new set of MIP CVD’s (new style, sorry cedric) that I had laying around. Cvd’s beat dogbones any day. They got a bit of shrink wrap around the pins, as a racing safety. The stock gear cover is still in one bit and has has the dust cap, that’s quite a feat I’d say! I also reamed one of the arms that was sticking on its hinge pins and did a couple of other fine-tuning mods.
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Back to the yard for another check run. The car runs better than ever, actually it’d be hard to say what car I’m faster with in my usual little course around the garden’s tree, my modern ride on the older CE! I can decently take it to the track now as I know the basics are there.

Here are a few pics of the track the Saturday race was held at. Tires are spec’ed, HB megabites in the rear and fullslots in the front, not the most logical combination but the race series is sponsored by the orion/HPI/HB importer and they provide us with a venue, so nothing to complain about. The track is extremely technical with a couple of very low speed 180’s, and a high speed 90 at the end of the straight, which was a bit of a pain for everyone as finding the right braking point was tricky. I qual’ed 5th, and took the CE out only when I was confident that I had my a-main spot secured, during the lunchtime free practice, with its “inappropriate” tires …

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…and OMG the CE works so well! Although the M1C is showing close to no brakes (forgot the shottky… but still, might have a radio issue here), which certainly doesn’t help in the slow section and makes thing a bit tricky towards the end of the straight, the rest of the track is a pure happiness! Obviously not having the right front tires help with stability, but it is sooooo easy to lay the power down. In the high speed turns, again, probably helped by its front tires, the car is a dream (although a pushy one – tires tires tires). In the jumps, it’s an absolute dream! Pitch control is so easy in the air, and the smoothness of the brushed motor really helps with picking the right powerband, and in the artificial whoops the car is like a pullman. Overall, the suspension is doing an amazing job and the gold shocks soak everything like if it was 1984. I handed the car over to a couple of old-school driving buddies, you know, those into vintage rides that have been doing this for 20 years, as they were lining up behind me to request some wheel time… and everyone was in awe, period. One of the guys even said “now I understand why I was always getting my ass whooped with my Ultima”. With the wrong tires and no brakes I was effortlessly lapping 23.0s whereas I could get in the high 20’s with my B4.1 at “race pace”. Basically we all thought that the car has a-main potential (at least in our local series) with a bit of additional work and assuming the driver (me) can get his act together.

So I committed to racing it properly during one of next season’s rounds, with modern electronics just to be on the safe side, the right tires, and a couple of other things. It’ll get a set of Lunsford ‘buckles too as the stock ones are slightly corroded and (sorry to say) simply crappy, I’ll also add some fluo yellow rpm ballcups to match the modern car’s scheme and be slightly more secure. Worst case, I’ll still have whatever racecar I’ll run then (either b4.1 or b5 if there’s such a thing or TLR22) if things go sour, but I really can’t see why they would… the CE is sooooo smooth it’s insane to think it’s a 25+ y.o. design that will show the way around the track to many modern cars. My B4.1 might be faster, but it simply has no soul and draws no attention. You have to remember that original RC10’s have never been that common in western europe, as their price was prohibitive, they looked like exotic metal bricks and the non-metric screws and “thoroughbred” image turned a lot of people off vs. the japanese and UK-made cars, so pulling a gold pan out in a race in 2011 is more of just an eye catcher, it’s a statement! All I know is it makes me very happy as I’ve dreamt about this moment since I was a 9 year-old 

Thanks for reading all the way up to here – now a couple of family shots 

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The only two thing I would like to ask about are
1- front suspension travel: with one external o-ring on the shaft and what seems to be 2.1 or 2.15 tires, it is impossible to compress the front shocks enough so that the chassis hits the ground, is that normal? Shock bodies and shafts look like the right length (at least the only thing that could create this would be too long a shock body, and this isn’t the case). Removing the o-ring would help a bit but not that much…
2- What help does the modern dual-pad slipper bring? During the 10mn practice run, it never really felt like the 1-pad slipper was losing anything in terms of consistency with the 15 quad… I know yall run B4 slippers on your cars, but what does it really bring, is it worth it with “mild” modern mods like a 10.5?

More pics later this year once I have the turnbuckles sorted out :)

Paul
AE RC10 - Made In The Eighties, Loved By The Ladies.
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losiXXXman
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Re: Lonestar's Stealth CE runner :)

Post by losiXXXman »

I think that's actually an A&L bellcrank setup. But no matter - WAY better than the stock cranks. Glad your enjoying your "new to you" RC10!

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heretic
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Re: Lonestar's Stealth CE runner :)

Post by heretic »

Great write-up man ! Now you got me wanting to mid-motorize my RC10 you to try and beat you next winter, haha

I have to agree on the general ability I have witnessed about maintaining a RC car. The too long spur screws is a mistake so common it's horriffying. Out of the the 5 AE slipper assemblies I have from various used cars, 4 of them have had to be sanded to remove the scars from too long screws. Let's not even mention the pad glazing.

About the B4 type slipper, I've been wondering the same thing. The obvious advantage of a B3 slipper over a B1/B2 is the fact that the pad , aprat from being slightly larger, is emprisoned by the inner plate and can't become out of center, so in the mid to long run that's really, really better.

The dual-slipper type , well, I suspect that spreading the slip and pressure on 2 pads makes the transition from "slip" to "non-slip" more progressive. It is also lighter and much simpler to build and maintain with no need to use a thrust bearing and inner bearing in the outer plate. It may also be les prone to glazing...

Obvious but slight drawbacks compared to previous versions: The use of specific spurs ( before the "octogon "ones actually became the offroad standard) and the impossibility to change a spur without undoing your slipper setting. ( but who cares ? if you remove the spur, 95% of the time it's to change the gearing so you have to reset the slpper anyway)

To make the difference more obvious it would be fun ( at least for me) to try back to back the first AE stealth slipper and the very latest B4.1 one, with the bigger spring and all.

Lots to discuss here ! See you

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Re: Lonestar's Stealth CE runner :)

Post by Lonestar »

losiXXXman wrote:I think that's actually an A&L bellcrank setup. But no matter - WAY better than the stock cranks. Glad your enjoying your "new to you" RC10!
Ha - thanks :) Makes sense... there is no rpm branding anywhere on the plastic as opposed to anything else than RPM does, and that composite link looks very similar to the A&L steering parts I have for my trx-1. A&L it is, then. I changed the description above :)

Cheers
Paul
AE RC10 - Made In The Eighties, Loved By The Ladies.
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Re: Lonestar's Stealth CE runner :)

Post by Lonestar »

Hi there mate ;)

Shame you didn't get a chance to try the car as you were wrenching on the B44 at the time... you would have enjoyed it ;)

Cannot agree more on the general comments about properly maintaining cars... people stash ridiculous cash in hop ups for their rides, but they build their slippers wrong :lol:

Re slipper tech, you are probably right, dual disc theoretically means smoother transition and less glazing/heat/youname it... but I really wonder if it anything can be felt on the track (barring the glazing of course but that's just regular maintenance) with "mild" mods. Heck, I couldn't even feel the difference between last year's B4 and 2011's B4.1 "new and improved" slipper.

Re rotating mass, why would the dual slipper tech be any lighter? The only difference is the two screws... the rest is the same (assuming a pad weighs nothing, which is about right). AE dropped the thrust bearing on single disc slippers after a few years once they realized it wasn't needed. My CE doesn't have it, there's just a copper washer...

Now if Didier's XX-cr wouldn't break a front a-arm every time it hits the track, it'd be even better as we could show the newer cars the way around the track with our old ladies! :)

See ya buddy
Paul
AE RC10 - Made In The Eighties, Loved By The Ladies.
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heretic
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Re: Lonestar's Stealth CE runner :)

Post by heretic »

Lonestar wrote: AE dropped the thrust bearing on single disc slippers after a few years once they realized it wasn't needed. My CE doesn't have it, there's just a copper washer...
DUH ! I had never realized it TBH... all my slippers have the thrust and I thought if I put nothing or a washer, the nut would come loose. Now that I think of it, the bearing must already act as a thrust which is what I hate about most american pan cars BTW. Guess that makes me even more stupid :roll: :roll:

About the weight, you must be right, the difference must be close to none, now that I think of it. From a manufacturing point of view it must be cheaper because the 2 plates are identical in the 2 pads version. Furthermore the roll pin on the single pad is a source of trouble at times, and it can slip off the top shaft even with the pressure of the setting nut tightened. If I had a lathe I would have tried to make a ring that prevents this... oh well.

That being said with the kind of power I'm able to handle (19 turns brushed AT BEST :lol: ), it will be just fine , no need to spend the $$ on a B4 version... yet.

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Re: Lonestar's Stealth CE runner :)

Post by Lonestar »

Hey guys

I actually never got help on that one

" front suspension travel: with one external o-ring on the shaft and what seems to be 2.1 or 2.15 tires, it is impossible to compress the front shocks enough so that the chassis hits the ground, is that normal? Shock bodies and shafts look like the right length (at least the only thing that could create this would be too long a shock body, and this isn’t the case). Removing the o-ring would help a bit but not that much…"

With modern "hi-profile" 2.2 tires, it'll get even worse...

anyone, please?

thanks!
Paul
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Re: Lonestar's Stealth CE runner :)

Post by Lonestar »

Howdy yall

As I am still waiting for some parts for my CWF+shiny project, I have worked on the car for a couple of evening now, so I figured out it was time to resurrect this thread as I'm taking care of my old friend :)

Image

The car hasn't been run much the past years as opposed to what I had planned. As competitive carpet racing inexorably moved to mid-motor, there was no way I could run this car without falling a bit too far to the bottom of the pack. So I ran modern MM's for a few years, until this winter when I ran my OIN-B1M (thread here for ref here). The good ole late Stealth CE got run in the yard a few times once in a while but that was it. In the meantime the radio was replaced to an Sanwa CS2P as the Alpina was acting up sometimes. But nothing flamboyant about that cool car, though... its A&L steering was even transferred to my OIN-B1M :(

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However - there is a sizeable vintage meet coming up end-May close to where I live, and I need some rides to take there!

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So, perfect opportunity to give some well-deserved TLC to the yellow rocket. The will also help me keep track of what is still left to be done to get it to the condition I want :mrgreen:

Done already:

- diff rebuild (gotta love the stealth) with B4 parts: Image

- shock rebuild, #1's all around - 37.5/35 and Black/green F/R. Many many shims added inside the rears to prevent the UJ's from rubbing on the arm at full extension, waaaay too much droop. Currently on metal shock caps but I will insteall some vented caps once they get here. I had forgotten how much of a PITA it is to build non-vented-capped shocks!

The below laundry list will also help me keep track of what is still left to be done to get it to the condition I want :mrgreen:


To-do's:
- install "a" steering. just ordered a spare worlds re-re #6254. need to dye it black.
- Switch rear bulkhead to re-re #6323 so I can run modern lipos. I have some smaller/older ones that fit, but not the same capacity. Need to dye it black.
- Switch to vented shock caps
- replace ballcups to fluo yellow RPM #73377. Stock turnbuckles will be fine.
- figure out what to do with wheels so I can install 2.2 tires.
- R: currently on 1/4" MIP CVA's. I am not short of vintage rims that fit the axle, but I suspect they are 2.1's. shall I fit 2.2 tires on small rims or convert to 3/16 axle and use the re-re wheels? If converting, I will never use this pile of original RC10 wheels I have ever anymore :(
- F: Will drop a #6801 on the car so I can use B4 rims as I still have some I think, and new ones are cheap as chips anyway.
- Maybe will go the full JC route... spokes are cool. but they are designed for a narrow front tire :(
- Figure out what the heck is wrong with the no-brakes M1C. Tried again yesterday and brakes are weak as crap.

Nice-to-have's:
- switch to b4 slipper - need top-shaft in this case, I believe I have a spare MIP one somewhere, also have a v1 assembly I'm sure. but then it's becoming OIN-ish :(
- Rebuild the motor... not sure needed, hasn't been run much. Will do only if time allows!
- Change the #6189 wing buttons as one of them is holding (fine, still) with a tie wrap :roll:
- Die black a re-re RPM white gear cover. Need to dye it black.
AE RC10 - Made In The Eighties, Loved By The Ladies.
Blue Was Better - now, Blue Is Bankrupt.
Facebook affiliate program manager: "They go out and find the morons for me".
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