Team Blue Groove

Show off your paintwork, tips/tricks, decals, etc...

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terry.sc
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Re: Team Blue Groove

Post by terry.sc »

kink wrote:IWith regard to copies of copies. That is a can of worms I did not know about. .. But as they do not make the old models any more I cannot see them caring at all.
No one has a problem with TBG supplying bodies you can't get hold of, but then he also does this.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-FIESTA-STYLE-RALLY-BODY-TRAXXAS-1-16-Ken-Block-/151010009373?pt=US_Radio_Control_Control_Line&hash=item2328e5e11d
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXAYKZ
Can't wait to see the fall out from that if Traxxas's lawyers find out.
I think anyone who makes bodies will have to accept anyone else can easily copy them. Just like I make artwork (illustrations or paintings) and someone else can copy me. That is life!
Do you make money from selling your artwork? Would you be happy if someone copied your artwork and was making good money from those sales and not giving any to you for licensing? I know if it was me and it was something I did 20 years ago I wouldn't be bothered much, but if I was selling my own prints or T-shirts and found someone was selling copies of them I wouldn't just accept that people could do it.

I must admit I have never bought a TBG body yet. I will do in future, his modified 959 bodies are much better than the originals for a runner, but for almost everything else only if I can't find an original at a reasonable price which can be found if you are prepared to wait long enough.
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kink
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Re: Team Blue Groove

Post by kink »

Being an illustrator is how I make my money. If someone openly copied me I would not be happy. But there is a limit to what I could do about it. They would only need to change one detail and they could argue it was merely an influence, rather than a carbon copy. Also I have been comissioned to copy the STYLE of famous illustrators, but with new or altered content. This is also allowed. So some may tread on my toes so to speak. But I am also free to take inspiration from others. What is a copy and what is inspiration does cross over very closely sometimes. But it is down to the client paying me to take that risk upon themselves. I am merely providing a service to them. The I.P issue is their problem.

Edit:

By client I mean i freelance for design consultants, who re-sell my work on to companies.






Also it may well be the TBG body is different in a few subtle ways to the Traxxas body. Unless you put them side by side how will you know for sure.

Also it is Ford who own the copy right to the original 1:1 Focus, not Traxxas. It may even be that Traxxas do not even pay Ford for rights. They could argue the full sized Focus was merely an inspiration to create a similar shape model (but not an exact copy).



Now look at all the other companies making copies of original RC10 products... MIP, RCS, Thorp, RPM, Houge, RC Carbon Works, plus many many others.. Some are very very similar to original products. See some similarities?
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terry.sc
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Re: Team Blue Groove

Post by terry.sc »

kink wrote:But it is down to the client paying me to take that risk upon themselves. I am merely providing a service to them. The I.P issue is their problem.
The difference there is that you are paid the same amount whether someone directly copies your work or not, or whether your customer makes any money from your work or not.

I have been a professional engineering modelmaker for much of my life, and making engineering and toy prototypes. Similarly, how many of each production item sells didn't matter to me as I was working for the design companies not the manufacturers. But I have developed models of what should have been the first of a range of toys with months of work ahead of me and then have that modelmaking work cancelled because another manufacturer had brought out a very similar range that meant the design company wasn't making any money in royalties to pay for more development. Losing thousands of pounds worth of work because someone blatantly copies two months of your problem solving does tend to give you a biased opinion on direct copying.

I have been importing bodies from Japan and selling them in the UK for some time. The strong yen means they don't sell now because they are just so expensive. I could just back pour them and sell my own for a lot less but I consider that morally wrong and would be more prepared to make my own versions of the bodies that sell that are very noticeably different. Others obviously have no problem directly copying others work. Even PenguinRC who started by copying TBG bodies has quickly moved on to their own body designs. I also have to weigh up whether there is a chance TBG will get hold of a body and capture the biggest market for bodies by undercutting me, after all TBG won't have the cost of weeks of creating, adjusting and refining the pattern and forming the mould, just the cost of enough resin to pour into a body.
Also it is Ford who own the copy right to the original 1:1 Focus, not Traxxas. It may even be that Traxxas do not even pay Ford for rights. They could argue the full sized Focus was merely an inspiration to create a similar shape model (but not an exact copy).
Ahem.
http://traxxas.com/products/models/othermodels/7309kenblock2010

# NEW Officially Licensed Ford Fiesta® Body
With Ken Block Monster Energy® Graphics
# NEW Officially Licensed Volk® Racing Wheels

That's a lot of licence fees to pay out and recoup from sales, which is why the genuine shells are a lot more expensive.
That's why Protoform has more or less stopped making scale bodies these days, as it can cost them more than the profit they make on each shell.
Now look at all the other companies making copies of original RC10 products... MIP, RCS, Thorp, RPM, Houge, RC Carbon Works, plus many many others.. Some are very very similar to original products. See some similarities?
Actually, no. None of those vintage manufacturers made parts that were exact copies of the original parts their upgrades replaced, in fact if they were identical i doubt any of us would have upgraded from OE.
Again, I have no problem with TBG providing alternative designs, such as their TLR22 bodies that are quite a different style to the originals, but back pouring bodies that can be bought in your local hobby store is wrong.
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Re: Team Blue Groove

Post by Phin »

terry.sc wrote:
Also it is Ford who own the copy right to the original 1:1 Focus, not Traxxas. It may even be that Traxxas do not even pay Ford for rights. They could argue the full sized Focus was merely an inspiration to create a similar shape model (but not an exact copy).
Ahem.
http://traxxas.com/products/models/othermodels/7309kenblock2010

# NEW Officially Licensed Ford Fiesta® Body
With Ken Block Monster Energy® Graphics
# NEW Officially Licensed Volk® Racing Wheels

That's a lot of licence fees to pay out and recoup from sales, which is why the genuine shells are a lot more expensive.
That's why Protoform has more or less stopped making scale bodies these days, as it can cost them more than the profit they make on each shell.
I don't remember if I mentioned it before but to add to what terry.sc said, RJ Speed no longer names their bodies with Ford or Chevy like they did when they were sold under Bolink....and that's most likely because of a licensing issue.

TBG however still uses the Ford and Chevy names on the copies of those same bodies. :|

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Re: Team Blue Groove

Post by kink »

I forgot about this thread. You make some valid points which nuke a lot of mine. Fair enough!

But regarding some of the components / hop ups available... some are very similar. What about Duratrax copies of Kyosho Gold shocks? Dropping one o ring is hardly much difference. Some of the other bits like gears or steering cranks etc are copies. I gues two wrongs do not make a right. But just saying TBG may not be alone. They are probably just the most exact of copies with minimum effort. Pretty cheeky I guess.

So...

Assuming you want an RC10 Mirage body what are the options out there?
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Re: Team Blue Groove

Post by Coelacanth »

Well, Duratrax's cloned shocks are terrible performance-wise, they were called "Duraleaks" for a reason...that missing O-ring wasn't much on paper, but in action, was the whOle difference. ;)
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Re: Team Blue Groove

Post by kink »

I decided to buy original Golds just so I knew it was real Kyosho kit.

But I have here a TBG Mirage body unpainted. Now I feel a bit weird if it has ripped someone off.

Also I have some Traxxas front tyres. They look cool. But now I see there is a lot of Traxxas hate as well. Kind of unsure about putting those on my RC10 now.

mmm...
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Re: Team Blue Groove

Post by CAT3K »

I was reading through one of my old magazines today and came across this little excerpt that made me laugh.

Image

The magazine is from 1979, so this has been going on forever :lol:
Paul.

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Re: Team Blue Groove

Post by Phin »

That "pleasant working arrangement" sounds like collusion to me. :roll:

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Re: Team Blue Groove

Post by Incredible_Serious »

Phin wrote:That "pleasant working arrangement" sounds like collusion to me. :roll:
Potato, tomato......
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Re: Team Blue Groove

Post by klavy69 »

kink wrote:Also I have some Traxxas front tyres. They look cool. But now I see there is a lot of Traxxas hate as well. Kind of unsure about putting those on my RC10 now.

mmm...
dont' feel bad about what someone else thinks about traxxas. There is kyosho haters, associated haters, losi haters, HPI haters, etc on this site. Just seems traxxas is the most popular. I've got (as several others do on this site) traxxas fronts on a few of my many different brands...the only issue is that I don't care who likes it or hates it :wink:

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Re: Team Blue Groove

Post by RC10th »

Anyone know if TBG make the 6130 Team Truck body (or anyone else)? I had a look but couldn't find anything. Will their JRXT body fit as it looks similar?
I was old school - when old school wasn't cool !

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Re: Team Blue Groove

Post by vwjuice »

Did team blugroove go out of business? I just checked their eBay page there is nothing at all listed.

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Re: Team Blue Groove

Post by Incredible_Serious »

vwjuice wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:26 am Did team blugroove go out of business? I just checked their eBay page there is nothing at all listed.
Closed for Christmas / New Year. From their store page, "We will reopen on Tuesday January 2! Thank-you for supporting TBG!". :wink:

Alex
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Re: Team Blue Groove

Post by vwjuice »

Where did you see that? I looked at their page. :shock:

Thanks for the info

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