RC10Talk - The Net's Largest Vintage R/C Community

It is a dilemma. Some good points on both sides. I still have never bought a tbg body, but I have to admit, it's getting harder and harder to not do it.

One thing that swings my opinion in favor of, is the fact that (as some have mentioned) many of these bodies are not and never will be made again by the original manufacture. So if the original manufacturer had no interest in making them, why would they care if someone else wants to make a reproduction. It's almost a slap in the face to the hobbyist/enthusiast. They're basically saying, yeah, we don't want to make them, so we don't want anyone to have one.

Copyrights stay in effect for 70 years after the creators death or 120 years from first creation for copyrights owned by a company. Since it hasn't been anywhere near that long since the bodies in question were first created the original creators still own the copyrights to the bodies.

Even if those items are not currently in production the copyrights are still in effect and the bodies cannot be legally reproduced. It also doesn't matter if the original owners can not be found...it's still not legal to reproduce the body.


Lastly the 10% rule isn't real. The idea comes from the question of how much something you created is similar to something someone else created and there's no set percentage that determines that. Using an old body to create a mold is 100% copying someone else's work no matter how much you alter that mold.

You are right, the copyright law lasts for a long time as long as it is kept active. But if these bodies were never filed for a copyright in the first place, then they would be fair game. Yes the Team Losi/ Team Associated/ Traxxas/ Etc. name brands were trademarked or copyrighted, but was the individual body? I think it would be up to one of the guys on the forum who was involved with these companies bitd to clear up whether the individual body had ANY form of intellectual rights filed on it.

The 10% rule is just an approximation. Ultimately it would be up to the copyright holder to take legal action against the "copier" and see what the judge determines.

Copyrights on the molds would exist as soon as the molds were created. While the creators should still register the copyrights to avoid headaches if they've got to sue someone, it doesn't make it legal to copy the bodies if a copyright wasn't officially registered with the government. The only thing that needs to be kept active is the owners willingness to take action against people copying those bodies. Even if the owner doesn't tell someone to stop right away doesn't mean it's legal to copy the bodies, it just means the owner doesn't want to bother taking legal action. The only way to make it legal is to contact the owner and get permission to reproduce the bodies.

That said at least in the case of Dahm's I can attest that all my original bodies have a copyright symbol on them and if Van's invent legally purchased the business from Ira Dahm then Van's Invent owns those copyrights. Even if Van's invent doesn't do anything with his original molds no one can legally copy them until after we're all probably dead.


Trademarks are different than copyrights and can pretty easily be circumvented. Trademarks are things like a name that are used to distinguish your item from someone else's. For example I can sell hamburgers that are exactly like a Big Mac but I'd need to call them something like a Big Mick to avoid a lawsuit.

RJ Speed avoids trademark infringement with GM and Ford on their bodies by giving them names like Talledega instead of Torino and N VA instead of Nova. TBG on the other hand is calling copies of those same bodies by the licensed names of the 1:1 cars they represent.

Put it this way.....it's not cost effective for these companies to enforce copyright on a guy making hundreds of dollars on ancient product with no life cycles left. Once he starts making millions those companies will sit up and notice. In other words....if you want to buy a shell from a guy who actually cares* enough to makes one just do it. Of course it's a copy so you need to accept that fact. Or cry to a company's deaf ears with no outcome if you want to retain the highest moral ground.


* cares might be strong word. The guy provides a service, better than crying in your cereal like the dahms guy.

gomachv wrote:

scr8p wrote:

limestang wrote: Personally I'm grateful companies like TBG and Mr Lexan are making reproduction bodies.

I'm sure TBG was grateful mrlexan made bodies too....

oh....you went there

somebody had to

Not saying its a 100% legal.

I just dont think its unethical unless as stated the bodies are being or will be produced again by the person who owns the copyright.

Got some TBG bodies the other day. Sure is nice to have cheaper correct bodies for runners. Is it right? I don't really care what anyone thinks, it's wont change what happens anyway! I'm even thinking of sending some of my originals to them to repop!

I've wondered this also.


I have an old Proline F150 truck body (with molded Canopy) that was intended for the TC3. I spoke to Proline at a trade show (RCX, or something like that) and I asked about old molds, esp since the Crawler craze kicked it, it would make for a great ReRe. It sounded like there might be some interest, but I never really got any traction when I emailed the company. Its still in the bag, though I bust it out every now and again.

I also have a couple of older YOKOMO sedan bodies- an old R33 LM body, and the Veilside RX7. I too wondered about sacrificing them to the TBG folks, but in the end, I worry about the damage to the original. I know the ReRe won't be nearly as good. And Yokomo seems like one of those companies that shouldn't be messed with.


For now, I'll just leave them in the bag and hold onto them....




MOmo

I also talked to Proline about old bodies, molds, and the possibility of rere'ing some bodies. The official answer I got was "No". The impression I got was, basically, if they discontinued it, they no longer have any interest in it. That doesn't necessarily mean they "don't care" about someone else compying them, just that they aren't going to do it.