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tamiyadan wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:09 pm The kyosho zx-rr later version used plastic shocks as an example, along with the hyper slipper.

What happened was the team drivers started to use plastic shock bodies to save weight. This idea started to work its way down into the race ready cars and buggies.
There was also plastic 3mm nuts used in place of metal lock nuts again to start saving weight.

Plastic also did not get deformed when hit like metal. There were a couple of times during a race where there would be a big hit and a shock body would get damaged and put a driver out of a race, since the suspension would jam.

ZX-rr used Ultimate shocks - teflon coated though, If You really need them to be plastic
Option House gold shocks was present in ´87
Plastic nuts, to my knowledge, has been in the kits since the release of the Ultima.

The most occurring problem, when the shocks takes a hit, is a bent piston rod.

Thanks for all the interesting information. I think I'll clean it up and put it in a bookshelf. With all the information its something new about. Its also something me and my father built together so there is that as well.

Anyway I read somewhere that turbo Rocky and optima was designed by two different departments at Kyosho and that these departments competed. Is this true?

I´m not familiar with that story -
I know Mr. Akira Kogawa was behind the Optima and from what I´ve read, a different designer was behind the Rocky. If they were competing or not, I don´t know

Here´s a write-up on Mr. Akira Kogawa by Tom E G.

http://vintage.dirt-burners.com/2017/02/12/akira-kogawa-kyosho-and-the-auto-model-model-car-design-company/

tamiyadan wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:35 pm the platinums actually came out first as option house upgrades from the red shocks. they came out about 1987 for platinums and were used on the turbo ultima.

early 1988 gold came out and started to get into the next generation optimas. the turbo optima was the first to use the golds.
the optima pro still used the red shocks.

No Dan, the gold shocks came first. The Turbo Optima was released in June 1986 with the gold shocks. The gold shocks started appearing in Kyosho catalogs from year 1987, while the platinums wasn't shown before the 1988 catalogs.

Tom

tamiyadan wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:35 pm the platinums actually came out first as option house upgrades from the red shocks. they came out about 1987 for platinums and were used on the turbo ultima.

early 1988 gold came out and started to get into the next generation optimas. the turbo optima was the first to use the golds.
the optima pro still used the red shocks.

...

the catalogs are tough also because old products overlapped and confused things more in 1989 there was some kits still having red shocks, like they used left over parts to just get kits sold.

...

Sorry but I still think the Golds came out first.

Gold shocks show as an option up in the 1987 catalog but plats aren't listed as an option until the 1988 catalog

I was wrong about the Turbo Ultima getting them but the Turbo Optima and Salute had the Golds in '87. In '88 the plats are listed on the Turbo Ultima, Turbo Rocky, and Optima MID SE. The Optima Mids came in several trim levels with the SE being the top model. SE's description in the catalog even refers to Plats as one of the car's "Performance Extras."

Joel Johnson used Golds on his '87 Ultima and prototype Optima Mid as well.

My recollection of the Kyosho shocks' timeline goes something like:
-6mm bore front/8mm bore rear red aluminums on the Circuit 1000 cars (later going to all 8mm bores)
-10mm bore CB red shocks offered as an upgrade.
-silver 8mm shocks first on the Progress then used on the Rocky
-8mm gold shocks with the bleed screw on the Gallop
-longer 8mm red alloy shocks on the Optima, and Ultima
-plastic 8mm shocks on the Raider
-10mm plastic red shocks on the Shadow/Aero Streak
-Gold shocks
-Plat shocks
-Kelron plastic shocks with the silver aluminum caps.
-med length Golds on front of the Triumph
-fantastic-plastic black shocks that came on the Outrage and Tracker
-alloy Equalizers

Johros wrote: ↑Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:49 am Thanks for all the interesting information. I think I'll clean it up and put it in a bookshelf. With all the information its something new about. Its also something me and my father built together so there is that as well.

Anyway I read somewhere that turbo Rocky and optima was designed by two different departments at Kyosho and that these departments competed. Is this true?

Yes, they were designed by two different design houses. The Optima series was designed by Akira Kogawa and "Auto Model Co". I believe the Rocky was designed by Shigeru Hino and/or Hidenori Tsuno of "Syuwa Kogyo Co". I guess there were some competition between them, but the "high end" cars always came from "Auto Model" and Kogawa. Even today, "Auto Model" are designing Kyoshos 1/10 competition buggies.

Tom

Phin wrote: ↑Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:42 am
My recollection of the Kyosho shocks' timeline goes something like:
-6mm bore front/8mm bore rear red aluminums on the Circuit 1000 cars (later going to all 8mm bores)
-10mm bore CB red shocks offered as an upgrade.
-silver 8mm shocks first on the Progress then used on the Rocky
-8mm gold shocks with the bleed screw on the Gallop
-longer 8mm red alloy shocks on the Optima, and Ultima
-plastic 8mm shocks on the Raider
-10mm plastic red shocks on the Shadow/Aero Streak
-Gold shocks
-Plat shocks
-Kelron plastic shocks with the silver aluminum caps.
-med length Golds on front of the Triumph
-fantastic-plastic black shocks that came on the Outrage and Tracker
-alloy Equalizers

CB88/89 around 1980 (Land Jump etc)
8mm (6mm bore) silver 1982 (Scorpion/Beetle)
8mm (6mm bore) red anodized 1984 (Tomahawk/Scorpion/Beetle/Circuit 1000)
10mm (8mm bore) red anodized 1984/1985 (Circuit 1000/Turbo Scorpion/Tomahawk)

Oh yes, then there were the #1886 (shorter version of the CB88/89) that was an upgrade for the scorps, among others. Around 1983, I believe (but don't quote me on that.....)

Thanks for the clarification on the early shocks TomEG. I forgot about the early 6mm shocks not being anno'd red. I also wasn't sure whether the rears were 6mm bore or not.

There's definitely some overlap in my list...and looking at it again the Shadow shocks should be bumped down.

I have seen prototypes of the Circuit 1000 Advance with the thinner shocks, but I'm not sure if they actually survived to the first production lots. I "think" all production Circuit 1000 (Advance/Assault) came with the thicker version.

Edit: I have looked into the Circuit 1000 some more, and have concluded they all came with the thicker "Turbo Scorpion"-type shocks. All the early reviews and ads, including the Japanese, show the thicker shocks.

Just to ad to the confusion, the shocks on my Std. Rocky are 12mm on the outside, and no bleeder screws.

I picked up an Advance or an Assault a few years ago that had 6mm bore shocks up front and 8mm bore in the rear. That was actually the first time I realized there were narrower Kyosho shocks than those that came on my Turbo Scorpion.

A lot of old posts I've read refer to red shock sizes by their outer diameters but I've always understood it to be that shocks were sized by their bores (i.e. inner dia.). So when I saw 8mm I thought people were talking about the red shocks like those on the Optima and Ultima, and 10mm shocks were the CBs.

Measuring shocks by their outer diameters is misleading.

Phin wrote: ↑Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:49 am I picked up an Advance or an Assault a few years ago that had 6mm bore shocks up front and 8mm bore in the rear. That was actually the first time I realized there were narrower Kyosho shocks than those that came on my Turbo Scorpion.

A lot of old posts I've read refer to red shock sizes by their outer diameters but I've always understood it to be that shocks were sized by their bores (i.e. inner dia.). So when I saw 8mm I thought people were talking about the red shocks like those on the Optima and Ultima, and 10mm shocks were the CBs.

Measuring shocks by their outer diameters is misleading.

Phin, I think the front shocks must have been changed on that one.

Edit: It's easier to measure the outer diameter than the inner, so that's probably why that is done.

DennisM wrote: ↑Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:33 am Just to ad to the confusion, the shocks on my Std. Rocky are 12mm on the outside, and no bleeder screws.

Dennis, I don't really know much about the Rocky buggies, but according to both the US and the Japanese manuals, there should be no bleeder screws on those. Do you have a pic of the shocks?

Tom