RC10Talk - The Net's Largest Vintage R/C Community

juicedcoupe wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:02 pm This is kinda like talking about motor oil.

Oh no you didn't!!!

Not to pollute this thread, but I think there is a little bit of hair splitting here. However, I see where everyone is coming from. But it appears that Mr. Reedy/Associated took particular care to advertise and label his modified (by their standards) motors as "MODIFIED" while what most people would refer to as "Budget Modified" is not a truly "modified" motor by that same standard. While these motors may be competitive in the modified class of racing, they are not necessarily in the truly "modified" class of motors. But since this is a Reedy Modifieds thread, it makes sense to use Mr. Reedy's standard (or what we are assuming was/is his standard).

I'm pretty sure that those definitions predate the machine wound "mods". A time when the motor was either stock or a hand wound modified. All the other stuff came later.

TRX-1-3 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:47 pm Not to pollute this thread, but I think there is a little bit of hair splitting here. However, I see where everyone is coming from. But it appears that Mr. Reedy/Associated took particular care to advertise and label his modified (by their standards) motors as "MODIFIED" while what most people would refer to as "Budget Modified" is not a truly "modified" motor by that same standard. While these motors may be competitive in the modified class of racing, they are not necessarily in the truly "modified" class of motors. But since this is a Reedy Modifieds thread, it makes sense to use Mr. Reedy's standard (or what we are assuming was/is his standard).

escalator-animated-gif.gif

Thank you!
All serious motor builders being Mike Reedy, Big Jim Greenemeyer, Neil McCurdy, Randy Hunter, Rick Howart etc. were working at the highest standards at their motors.
So a "Modified" have to be the creme of their work.
It doesn´t matter if you call such motors a Full Modified, a Real Modified or a "tuner" motor. But it have to meet these standards.

Summing up, a Modified should be like this
A handwound armature, btw always starting with a blank armature. Blank armature and can is how motor builders received their tear-down (from Sagami mostly).
But it is more than this.
The windings have been soldered or welded to the commutator.
The final armature have been double or triple balanced, not the way found at mass produced motors.
Commutator diamond trued,

Magnets got optimized installation and zapped.
Brush holders adjusted, brushes soldered to the endbell.
Timing optimized for the specific wind.

So any motor not meeting theses standards is a stock or budget motor.
About the term "machine Mod". What does that mean? Machine wound Modified.
Well, you have to think what these words mean. Machine Wound = mass production, Modified = hand built. So it is exactly the opposite, how could you use this opposite words in one term?
It is a marketing thing, nothing else.
None of the standards used for a "Real Modified" motor have been done to an Esprit, Speedworks, M&Y or any similar budget motor.
So do you really want to call such motor a modified?

This would equal to calling a 20K mass produced fullsize car a "Super Sports Car" as a Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bugatti ...

V12 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:15 am About the term "machine Mod". What does that mean? Machine wound Modified.
Well, you have to think what these words mean. Machine Wound = mass production, Modified = hand built. So it is exactly the opposite, how could you use this opposite words in one term?
It is a marketing thing, nothing else.
None of the standards used for a "Real Modified" motor have been done to an Esprit, Speedworks, M&Y or any similar budget motor.
So do you really want to call such motor a modified?

It's simple really. BITD you had stock and modified classes to race in. Allowed stock motor specs were determined by the track you raced at. If you had a $35 budget mod or an $80 "full" mod (your words) then you raced in the modified class. People with budget mods won all of the time on the local level for obvious reasons - a good driver. Yes, a budget mod is still a mod. Some Speedworks are mods too even though you disagree.

[/quote]

It's simple really. BITD you had stock and modified classes to race in. Allowed stock motor specs were determined by the track you raced at. If you had a $35 budget mod or an $80 "full" mod (your words) then you raced in the modified class. People with budget mods won all of the time on the local level for obvious reasons - a good driver. Yes, a budget mod is still a mod. Some Speedworks are mods too even though you disagree.

[/quote]

I was just a racer, and a terrible one at that, but this is exactly how it was anywhere I participated. We didn't have motor collectors splitting hairs and debating alternate definitions for the terminology. We just had to fit into a class. You either had a buggy or a truck and either specifically a 27t fixed timing motor, or a "modified". So for practical purposes, stock was the specifically defined motor class and modified was the "everything else that doesn't fit the definition of stock" motor class. When someone asked if you were running stock or mod, they were asking which class you were running; they were not asking if Mike Reedy personally aligned the brush hoods for you.

This is the classic denotation vs connotation debate. Denotation is the literal use of a word. Some folks want to say "modified motor " means someone did specific modifications to a motor. Fair enough.
Connotation is the shared use of a word. Some (me included) used the terms stock and mod to fit into a racing class. So modified means "a motor not allowed in stock class". Also fair.

So back on topic of which Reedys to look for.... dinglem's BK Select would definitely be a desirable Reedy. He might need to send that to someone, for safe keeping purposes.

Don't worry, it is in a safe place!!!

Here is a bit of a Reedy line up. There is an early red and a green label in there too.... with 83 Euro's stickers on them.

Reedy 6511 gold dot

dinglem wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:36 am Don't worry, it is in a safe place!!!

Are you sure it's a safe place? That might be a bad neighborhood. The motor behind it looks like it was stripped bare and the armature left behind. Very nice collection and display!

jcwrks wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:39 am Reedy 6511 gold dot

Ooooo! I know new in package motors should be highly valued, but I tend mostly toward nice used motors that I can hold and power up without tearing into a survivor package.

My wife is on guard when i'm away.... actually i say that, my RC stuff is actually locked away in my mancave so even she doesn't go up there!

1911Colt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:36 am Connotation is the shared use of a word. Some (me included) used the terms stock and mod to fit into a racing class. So modified means "a motor not allowed in stock class". Also fair.

This!

Anything that doesn't fall under the rules of stock or spec class, is a modified.

And while I still think of the spec class motors as mild modifieds, I understand their purpose.

I think of it like this. If you had shown up at a sanctioned race with a machine wound "mod" motors, you would absolutely be placed in the modified class.

I raced a lot in the standard class in the UK - a very very competitive class back then, and to qualify for that you had to have a 27turn sealed can motor, bushes rather than ball-races and which was at or below the set price bracket. When starting out this was 12pounds and eventually went up to 15pounds from memory. We're talking 88 - 95. Anything that didn't fulfil all of those criteria had to run in the modified class. I did see machine wound MG Red Dot Plus 'budget modifieds' win decent level modified class races through that period though.

The above discussion probably stems from the origins of the term 'modified' however.... a very different time.... which takes me nicely back to this Reedy of mine and is one of the reasons I love the early 'modified' Igarashi and Mabuchi 540 motors so much....

I found a photo of my Reedyfied Bolink Igarashi motor, albeit before I gave it a really good clean. Once i get home I will take some more pictures of it but as you can see the label is fully intact and did wipe down really nicely. It has clearly had a bit of work done by Mr.Reedy - there are vent holes in the can, ball-races have been added and the armature displays typical Reedy balancing and wraps at the comm end. A very short flat has also been ground on to the pinion end of the shaft.

I absolutely love this example.

The cool stuff just keeps coming!

Dinglem
Thanks a lot for the pics of your Bolink Reedyfied motor.
This is an awesome motor and I certainly would be happy to own such.
It looks exactly like a Reedy of the same era but wear the Bolink sticker.

The very early Igarashi based motors like this one were even more work to get a modified. Even the can and endbell had to be machined to take ballbearings.
So this motor is an example for an early modified motors. And what was seen and called as a modified.
It changed a bit when the open endbell motors as Yokomo, Kyosho and AYK were introduced.
Because the can and endbell came with ballbearings. Or bushings easily could be replaced, without machining the can.

At that time stock motors were 35T. A Parma Renault was a typical example. But there were also different stock motors available with a 32T winding as a Parma Porsche.
Those motors were not allowed to run at the stock class. But of course could be run at the Modified class. But nobody would claim such motor a modified, no manufacturer or driver.
Even when some of those motors got silicon wires, run in brushes (waterdipped)) and were dynoed. So such motors would be qualified more for being called a modified motor, than your machine mod which never got any human treatment beside applying the label. But those 32T motors never were seen as modifed. As budget motors yes, and that´s the right term.

If you think a motor, what could be run in the modified class, qualifies for being called a modified. Well of course you could run a 35T motor (or the 27T later) at the modified class also. No rules will prohibit this.
So you could call this motor a modified as well.
So in the end all motors are modified.
Are you happy now?

For me I have no more interest to follow my own thread. It is spoiled because of useless discussion about a term which was defined many years ago.
i´m an old racer who started into R/C cars at a time where other guys even were not on this earth.
And I believe in what I have seen and experienced in many, many years. Not just R/C related.
Actually I´m open minded, but I give a sh.. on what marketing guys want you to believe.