2010 VINTAGE OFFROAD NATIONALS OFFICIAL THREAD• SEPT 16-19TH

[Charlie don't surf]

Just to ask, why divide and thin? What difference does the B2 and the xx make over the RC10- sure there are more than one version etc, but I am beating 12-15 xxx-t and T4.1 and RT5's weekly
with my 10t-

I don't know. Clearly my idea of the definition of vintage is messed up.

Scott, did you take this as something I said against something that you brought up? I only said what I did because I race mine weekly and beat the snot out of way more modern stuff- I just popped in and saw the 80's and 90's thing and commented-


Anyway, all BS aside this is a "happening" more than an actual race so to speak anyway which is
a big part of the draw-I have yet to be able to attend, but I hope to if not just to meet some of the guys that I haven't yet or haven't seen in a while. But why does the "rules" issue here seem to be such a point of contention? They are toy cars for bowling trophies, even better-they are old toy cars driven/carried/dusted by guys that are linked by a common passion. This should flow way better IMO-

[MelvinsArmy]

Reggie, I didn't take anything you said personally, no worries there. I just saw what you said as another way to express my opinion about the whole situation. My whole point is this specialty vintage event seems way more concerned with pulling in big numbers than running something that looks like a vintage race. That's all. I agree, we all have a similar passion. I could care less about a bowling trophy or even placing in the top half of the field. I would like to finish the race weekend, but honestly I don't care where I place. I'm there to have fun and race vintage radio controlled cars and nothing more. I really don't know why people need to treat it like a Sunday race day for points, arming their cars to the teeth with every single modern piece they can fit. They are the crybabies, by definition, they have to win at any cost and will by stretching any reasonable definition of vintage. That's not vintage and in my opinion it's not fun either. It's Kramer going to kids' karate class. That's what turns me off. It's quite clear who values the bowling trophies, it's not those of us who are there to race old cars.

[Charlie don't surf]

And to further what you said, I think that this race would be better held on the loose dirt outdoor track at that facility, where old rubber and suspension was meant to be used

[kaiser]

And to further what you said, I think that this race would be better held on the loose dirt outdoor track at that facility, where old rubber and suspension was meant to be used

thats not a bad idea. the 5link jrx2's would really like that.

[soniccj5]

And to further what you said, I think that this race would be better held on the loose dirt outdoor track at that facility, where old rubber and suspension was meant to be used

thats not a bad idea. the 5link jrx2's would really like that.

Great idea!! Then I would not have to buy new tires for the Sand Scorcher(I sure hope a re-release SS falls into the rules).

ED

[tecnica2001]

Geez, some of you are too much, I'm sorry I called anyone a crybaby.....

I'm sorry for being such an ignoramus, I'll try to contain my urge to be ignorant.

- This is, and has always been promoted as a RACE, and not a gathering or a club meet.
- Don't lash out at those of us using what we currently have for electronics.
- Don't blame us for rules that the race organizers set from the beginning.
- I think the biggest performance enhancement are tires and batteries, threaded shocks, rainbow colored screws, and quick change hubs, do not make the cars faster or handle any better.
- I think racing is fun, and we had that much fun racing and being competitive with "Vintage" cars is awesome.

It bothers me to see that such an awesome event its turning into such a hassle...

Erich if you told me that I couldn't run my XX, I would've gotten something else to comply....

[bearrickster]

I haven't been able to make it to the Race yet but I have already put it on the calendar so I can make it this year. but this thread is making my head hurt.

For the Love of God Erich set the classes in stone. and everybody either build a car for a class or don't.
Erich this is your sand box, your race. I for one want to come and play, Everyone either build a car as per the rules or go race somewhere else. its the same thing every year, wine, wine then most don't come anyway. Every local track I have ever raced at the track set the rules as what you run. and everyone builds something to run. people will still come no matter what you say the classes are. I am not trying to ofend anybody or point any fingers its just pages and pages of the same thing every year. any track will make a class if enough people show up. so build a car for a class and if you want to race something else post it and if enough people like you idea they will build one to. and I am sure the track will let you all run.

[Charlie don't surf]

- This is, and has always been promoted as a RACE, and not a gathering or a club meet.

Depends on how you look at it, this event would by far be the easiest "national" to cherry pick- what other National Titles do you currently hold?

- Don't lash out at those of us using what we currently have for electronics.

I agree very much, and I don't think that is what was said- but you both should be able to recognize each others perspective on a similar subject-

- Don't blame us for rules that the race organizers set from the beginning.

I also agree with this, and it's what I almost posted a few days ago because like Rick said it's Erich's race and he should be the end of the line-

It bothers me to see that such an awesome event its turning into such a hassle...

Me to, because now partly because of event's like this vintage influx into the normal racing mainstream has become more commonplace, and if this can't congeal- then I can race my vintage stuff against others every week-

[MelvinsArmy]

Am I the only one who sees the irony that here we are on "RC10Talk.com" and there is no class at the Vintage Nationals that a 6010 RC10 (you know, the RC10) can be entered in and be competitive.

And before you feed me the 2.2, long arm, brushless, blah, blah, blah, save it. I'm talking about a vintage 6010 RC10. To race at a vintage race.

You know what would be much easier than coming to an kind of agreement on the rules for this race? Take the word Vintage out of the title. That would solve everything. Maybe call it the Retro Nationals because that's what it is.

[kaiser]

when the 6010 came out what was it's competition? around me it was tamiya's and it was no contest. fast fwd 4 years to 88 and the jrx2 would wipe the floor against short arm rc10's. thats why we all ran andy's arms. i don't think a class based on 1984 could work, unless it was a field of rc10s and maybe an ultima.

i think a true vintage race would be tough to pull off. i think erich and rchr do a great job at making it fun, and thats what rc is all about right?
i didn't even make it there for the race last year but i did make it for the first day of practice and i had a blast. the week prior and the week after i ran my jrx2 with the modern cars and that was awesome too.

[civilguy]

Kaiser- the point is definitely to have fun.
I think what everyone keeps missing, and is not a factor for you, is distance (and indirectly, expense). RCHR is in your backyard, and to have fun running a vintage, classic, retro, whatever-you-call-it buggy is easy (and cheap) for you and others in the great Waterbury area.
I think several members here are vintage enthusiasts and just pine for a more vintage feel. That vibe goes away when you're running your 27turn/nimh batteried 6010 short arm RC10 (like I did in 2008) against basically modern buggys on a track surface that didn't exist until most of our prized toys were discontinued. All of us can take our vintage rides to a local track and most local clubs will let you run right alongside B4's... why get a hotel, travel for hours and incur all those expenses when you can do the same thing in your backyard?
Personally, I'd rather see an event without "Nationals" in the name, held at a loamy, loose track with a swap meet and more focus on meeting other enthusiasts, swapping stories and getting to meet people... more of a Vintage get-together that happens to be held at a track. That's not what I recommend for Erich's event, but I think it's more of what some folks on here would like to see... and that more would travel distances to attend.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and that's why we have a forum: to voice those thoughts. Erich, Mark & Jon run a very nice race weekend and a lot of people chime in here with ideas... ultimately it's their show and what they decide goes, just like every other rc race. I wish them luck for their 2011 race!

[MelvinsArmy]

Thanks Jeff, I couldn't have said it better myself.

[reign79]

Or me!

[shirochanwrx]

Am I the only one who sees the irony that here we are on "RC10Talk.com" and there is no class at the Vintage Nationals that a 6010 RC10 (you know, the RC10) can be entered in and be competitive.

And before you feed me the 2.2, long arm, brushless, blah, blah, blah, save it. I'm talking about a vintage 6010 RC10. To race at a vintage race.

You know what would be much easier than coming to an kind of agreement on the rules for this race? Take the word Vintage out of the title. That would solve everything. Maybe call it the Retro Nationals because that's what it is.

The only way to make the 6010 truly competitive is to exclude the vehicles that succeeded it. And as it was pointed out above, the primary reason that the RC10 was a "world beater" is because for that moment in time it was the newest kid on the block. Besides, a race comprising entirely of one of the most desirable and collectable RC icons would be a pretty small crowd ... if the purpose of the endeavor is to enable people to run older gear *and* not break the bank, I think that it benefits everyone to allow vehicles somewhat more contemporary than the 6010, not because they are more competitive, but because they are more common. For example, I love 20 year old R/C cars, but there is no way I could put together a 6010 to run at this event.

"Retro Nationals" instead of "Vintage"? If the car is almost 20 years old, I think that it has earned the moniker "Vintage" ... I think the key is to come up with a reasonable cut-off date for the design of the cars and stick to it. The Losi XX seems like a pretty modern car and design to me ...

If they were building a track for the event, I agree, a loose and loamy track with everyone running gnarly spikes throwing up rooster tails would be super cool. But I think having a track commit to this endeavor for a couple years in a row is really generous, even if it has a contemporary "off road" surface.

I was looking forward to trying to get down there this year ... is the competition really that cut-throat? I mean, it sounded like it would be a pretty chill gig ...

[MelvinsArmy]

Yes, a 20 year old car is vintage. When it's +30% brand new parts (and I don't mean NOS parts) it's no longer vintage. Therefore it is Retro.

6010 and the like did race against Ultimas, Jrx2s, etc. It's not like there was a strange void in time when that was the only car on Earth being raced. Longer front arms, fine. How many people are gonna put a 6 gear transmission in their car and bring it to the races to race against a XX?

Much like the reproduction/bootleg argument, I'm tired of this. Honestly I don't care what happens. As I learned last year by the heavy metal rules when it came to the Clodbuster, nobody cares anyway.