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I was working on my Kinwald the other day and thought, this car does not really seem to vintage. I threw in the electronics for a bit out of my RTR RC104.1 and they might as well be the same car. Granted I was not in a race but when I drive my JRX2 or RC10 gold tub I get more of a vintage feeling. XX parts are failry easy to come buy if my stocked closet is any indication as well.

Really there is no point to this other than to ramble on.

it's considered vintage for the vonats, pre 1994.

Good to know since I have three of them in various states.

That reminds me, I have searched and wondered about other makes of competitive 2wd buggies from the era. I am well versed in Associated and Losi and to a much smaller degree others. What were the other competitive buggies or attempts at comptitive ones say from 1988 ish to 1993-4.

Off top of my head:

RC10, JRX2 (Pro etc.), XX(near end of this period) Schumacher TopCat/Cougar, Tamiya Astute, Kyosho Ultimas.

Not trying to get specific models like dicing up the RC10 variations or like Ultima pro, XL etc but the main chassis so to speak. Am I missing any other main chassis?

kaiser wrote:it's considered vintage for the vonats, pre 1994.

it BARELY made it for the v-nats. i along with quite a few others don't feel it should be there.

I'd agree with you and I forgot the TRX1 above in my hypothetical broad based competitive 1988-1993 ish list.

I think its testiment to the XX design that it still does feel like a modern buggy, afterall its first major outing was at the worlds in 93 where it took TQ, the final winner though being Brian Kinwald with his Ali tubbed RC10. I guess a Double X doesn't feel vintage partly because although it was released in late 93/early 94, it continued right up the end of the 90s, & many people continued to race it even after the release of the triple X..... I certainly prefered the XX over the later car, so I guess its still fresh-ish in people's memories.

The construction of the car is also consistant with where modern buggies are now aswell - everything is moulded from fibre reinforced plastic, components that slot & peg together neatly - Losi pioneered this technology & the rest have followed.

Strangely I get that vintage 'feel' with the graphite plated cars... but I start to lose it even with the Pro SE & Junior 2...

Its interesting also how in that 5 year period mentioned 1988 - 1993 (the exact number of years I was at secondary school) Losi went from the JRX2 to the XX, Schumacher went from the TopCat to the Cougar2000 where as Associated had hardly changed their tub chassis RC10 - introduced the Stealth gearbox, some hardened shocks & thats about it!

DerbyDan wrote:
Strangely I get that vintage 'feel' with the graphite plated cars... but I start to lose it even with the Pro SE & Junior 2...

Ditto. even though they are still pretty cool in my book.

I look at the engineering when I consider "vintage" not necessarily age.

The XX was really the pioneer of the modern "design". It's engineering shares more with todays buggies than that of say the Jrx-2.

I look at buggies in 3 stages.

Cheap non-racers (your grasshoppers etc)
The RC10/JRX2 era
The XX and beyond

sgirouard wrote:I
I look at buggies in 3 stages.

Cheap non-racers (your grasshoppers etc)
The RC10/JRX2 era
The XX and beyond

That's pretty good. So what were the racers of that period broadly speaking. RC10, JRX2, TRX1, Topcat/Cougar, Astute?, Ultima......

"Of that era" do you mean the RC10/JRX2?

Well, the races I went to usually consisted of 2 Jrx2, 8 RC10s (of different hop up configurations...graphite chassis/andy's trailing arms etc or box stock), maybe an Ultima. A traxxas that I don't remember the model and then some tamiya/aristo-craft plastic get-in-the-ways.

A-mains were 99% of the time 2 JRX-2s (it was me and another guy who were the only ones with them) and the rest were always RC10's, the ultima would sneak in there if a couple people broke down.

That was at the tracks I raced at.

But I think you hit the main ones
RC10, JRX-2, Top Cat & Ultima (with A LOT OF HOP UPS) were the big 4 for competitive 2WD racing.

Pretty much what I remember too, I actually raced a Topcat for a while given to me by Cecil Schumacher at the big hobby show I was working here in Chicago. I was the only one I ever ran into. And I as I ran into walls a lot the fragile front laydown suspension did not serve me well.

I remember a couple guys with the later Ultima Pro graphite cars being competitive.

at the tracks local to me as a kid all there were was rc10's and jrx2's.
the entry level cars had their own class and we never saw any ultimas or schumachers.
the only kyosho's i ever saw back then were the mid's as they dominated 4wd in my area.

the truck class was dominated by heavily modded blackfoots, then kingcabs.

i think it was the kingcab that got the class renamed to stadium truck. shortly after the jrxt came out and the kingcabs quickly vanished.

i remember running my rpm worlds front end with houge trailing arms and doing very well....until the xx hit the track. it was game over for my rc10.

Don't forget there was more than one version of the XX.For the v-nats you
could only let XXs with the original chassis and the front wishbones without
sway bar mouldings.the rear end was also different with outboard toe in.These
cars are more rare then the CR version.

The vonats guys adhere loosely to the rules. Not that that is a bad thing. The performance advantages you get from the later Kinwald or CR style parts for the XX is very marginal. So much so that going over these cars with a fine tooth comb simply isn't necessary. There was never a tech inspection done on ANY vehicle that was entered at that race the 3 years I have attended. Simply no need to. Everybody plays by the rules because the intent of the race was to have fun not to get buried in technical requirements.

BTW, there wasn't anybody there with any version XX that had anything for the Schumacher buggy!

So to answer the first question, yes, I believe the XX is vintage.

Brandon G wrote:
BTW, there wasn't anybody there with any version XX that had anything for the Schumacher buggy!

Which Schumacher buggy was that? Cougar1,2 or 2000?? The Cougar 2000 was a right pig to set-up (like all the double decked cars) but once you'd found a sweet spot it was a very quick car