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A little while ago I bought one of Marwan's Optima body's for my Optima build and while I don't expect perfection from a repro I have found this particular shell to be of a poor quality (not what I've seen in the past from him) which is quite disapointing. Much of the detail is missing, there are dust particles all through the form and the cut lines are almost impossible to see.

This is not an attempt to defame Marwan because I really appreciate what he does for us but wanted to ask around to see if others have noticed this and if TBG has a better quality item on offer now days?

As far as I can see there are 3 different people that do repro's. TBG, Kamtec and Marwan.

Any opinions welcomed.

Jason, I've got repros from TBG and Marwan both. My Optima shell is a TBG and other than some faint cut lines it's very nice. I have an Optima Mid from Marwan and it is top notch in all respects. Possibly the shell you got was a fluke. I'd bet he would send you another if you explained the issues to him.

Good suggestion Gary. I have sent him an email politely asking if the shell I got was from a bad lot or just a 1 off.
Many thanks- Jason

I can speak from experience, I've seen Team Bluegroove's operations and they are way better than anything I have seen. I was a skeptic because I believed original OEM bodies were the best to use but the John from TGB explained to me that when Kyosho originally made them they didn't have even heat and they had flaws. I mean the inside was fine but you had droops in the Windows and other flaws and he takes all that out. I put this information on my web site because I'm a tru believer now. I got one of hos Cox Beetle bodies from hom and its nicer than the original one I have. I'm not a getting a kick back from him but I went to see him because I wanted to see the proof for myself. Marwan does not sand his molds like TBD, he is a perfectionist. I've seen all his bodies and am 100% convinced you won't be disappointed especially his optima 1 body. If you do end up ordering bodies tell him I sent you, I am not getting a kick back but we don't live far apart and he'll appreciate me spreading the word.

best of Luck
Franco

One must say that i have bought the lazer zxr body from TBG and the original is so much better just take any picture with an zxr body wich are original and you clearly see the difference.

mvh Isobarik

Jon has two "grades" of bodies as he explained to me once... Those where the master was created from brand new bodies, and those where he only had "used" bodies to create the master from, these were either already cut, painted, or whatever. This is why some of his bodies are less expensive than others, the more expensive ones are better quality.

I think there's a lot of unfairenegative atmosphere against TBG's product - I've bought a dozen bodies from him now and never been disappointed, since he started using genuine lexan!

Paul

i just got a marwan optima body, it's nice but it seems just a tad short, the rear body post hole does'nt line up at all, i need to put a hold one "vent" back from the intended hole.

Vacuum forming Lexan is not an easy task, particularly when a "back-poured" reproduction form/mold is used. There are numerous challenges that need to be overcome. A few:

1. Lexan shrinks as it cools. The formed Lexan body is typically pulled off the mold while still warm (to facilitate removal) and the body will shrink a little as it cools down to ambient temp. The shrinkage amount is a few percent. To combat this, OEM molds are often oversized slightly so the finished OEM body is the correct size. A repro mold created from an OEM body will create a repro body that is slightly smaller. Shrinkage is very difficult to correct for with a reproduction. Thus, body mount holes, etc. don't always line up.

To illustrate this point on shrinkage, the mold for my RC10 undertray is about .060" bigger all around so the finished undertray fits correctly.

2. Lexan absorbs moisture and must be dried prior to forming. If it is not, the moisture in the polymer turns to steam as it is heated (Lexan is formed around 400 F), which creates tiny bubbles in the formed body.

3. Lexan can build up quite the static charge which attracts a lot of dust particles, some of which are nearly invisible to the naked eye. They will show up in the formed body, however.

On another note, I own numerous OEM Kyosho bodies (painted and NIP) and so far they are all superior to their respective reproductions. Kyosho was/is one of the best, IMO. This is not a knock on the repro guys; it's just a fact of life with reproductions. The only repro bodies I have ever seen that are nearly perfect are Mr.Lexan's. He obviously invests a lot of time in making his molds as good as they can be.

Believe me I don't mean to upset anyone who makes bodies but when I saw what John at TGB goes through to produce a body it was way more than I expected. He gave me details but I can't share them here but it's not a simple process. He did explain to me about the way Kyosho used to make bodies back in the day and why some bodies have droop on the Windows and he explained to me about the heat and distribution of heat. This is just taking a piece of Lexan and placing it there cold and making a body a lot more goes in to it than that. As for your cut holes on your Optima that was my complaint to John as well that's why I never purchased an Optima 1 body from anyone but TBG fixed that issue and trust me it fits like a glove.

Franco

Update:
According to John

"in the coming couple months all tbg bodies will not be made to order. All our bodies will be done in runs of 10-30 bodies at a time to ensure an accurate clean flawless body.
All bodies less than perfect will be recycled."

Yep.

That's why his shop is shut while he does this and make room to store all the bodies.

He sold over 200 just after X Mass and had to shut the shop down as he ran out of Lexan.

The new Vucume forming machine is giving excellent results & all his new shells are like this.

Add to that Fantastic customer service . It doesn't get better. But there are knockers still no matter how good TBG is. Simple it's there loss.

Mark