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Alcyon's RC10 Worlds Car modern racer build

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 10:51 pm
by alcyon
I got my first associated car ever, the RC10 worlds in mid February. I was hooked after a friend of mine Foong, let me drive his, and I was instantly hooked, it was so easy to drive, unlike another buddy's TLR 22. So I bought it , but did not have the time to really set it up properly and fix the flaws that came with it out of the box.
Here are the flaws.
1. The B4 top shaft flats were machined too deep causing the inner slipper plate to rub on the motor plate. I saw associated's claim process, and was put off.. So after some searching, I stumbled across associated's representative on this very forum, Don, who helped out without any hassles, and in 2 weeks I received a new b4 top shaft, which solved the problem.
2. The ball cups are crap, they would pop off, and there was a lot of slop. I ordered RPM ball cups from A main.
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however, the RPM ball cups are much longer, so now I need shorter turnbuckles, or I would have to cut the RPM ball cup ends, which do you guys recommend?
3. The drive shafts are way too short, and will pop out at full droop. As a result, I had to limit droop drastically until it affaected handling so badly. I did really badly in the Apr 12th race. Foong suggested I used MST 57mm bones coupled with their CVD pins. MST is a Taiwanese company, and I can get these parts locally, so I will be giving this a try. Foongs car ran really well so this must be working.
I will buy a set today, then update you guys.

after the race, I also found some bearings had seized after sand went in, its only been ran 5 packs, so this shows how bad the china made bearings are.
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After a few runs, I also found lots of sand inside the gear cover, I was puzzled as to how was the sand getting in, then it occurred to me it must be coming from behind the motor plate , the gap between the inner slipper plate and the motor plate, so I cut a slab of sponge and stuffed in before I slide the slipper plate in.
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Next improvement, the instructions call for two 4-40 allen bolts to hold down the battery. Since the batteries will be removed very often, this will wear out the threads in the plastic battery box. So I used two 4-40 set screws which I bought for my Lazer ZX battery hold downs which uses associated B44 posts. This way, I only remove the nuts. I plan to get 4-40 wing nuts, but find it difficult to get in a metric country.
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The ball diffs get gritty very quickly, I stuffed some sponge to cover the thrust bearing, but the sponge fell off after the CVD came off the ball diff cups during the race.
So now.. my plans.
1. Purchase some acer bearings.
2. Get the MST bones and pins.
3. Balance the springs and damping ala fred swain method.
4. Remove all internal limiters from rear shocks, get them to 104mm length.
5. Proceed to kick all modern 2wd butts..
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A pic of my Rc10 with my LWB Optima Mid, before I ruined both of them on Apr 12th.

Re: Alcyon's RC10 Worlds Car modern racer build

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:12 am
by Bottom Feeder
alcyon wrote:3. The drive shafts are way too short, and will pop out at full droop. As a result, I had to limit droop drastically until it affaected handling so badly.
...

So now.. my plans.

4. Remove all internal limiters from rear shocks, get them to 104mm length.
The re-re Worlds rear CVA shafts are the correct length. They will pop out if they are not shimmed correctly, if your camber is not set correctly, or if your rear shocks are too long. Removing the rear spacers is only going to make the issue worse. The CVA shafts may even rub on the rear arms at that point.

Re: Alcyon's RC10 Worlds Car modern racer build

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:40 am
by Lonestar
that's if they don't bind first :mrgreen: what's with the bubble wrap on the shocks? :shock:

you might still be some way from kicking modern cars' rears :mrgreen:

Re: Alcyon's RC10 Worlds Car modern racer build

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:48 pm
by alcyon
Bottom Feeder wrote:
alcyon wrote:3. The drive shafts are way too short, and will pop out at full droop. As a result, I had to limit droop drastically until it affaected handling so badly.
...

So now.. my plans.

4. Remove all internal limiters from rear shocks, get them to 104mm length.
The re-re Worlds rear CVA shafts are the correct length. They will pop out if they are not shimmed correctly, if your camber is not set correctly, or if your rear shocks are too long. Removing the rear spacers is only going to make the issue worse. The CVA shafts may even rub on the rear arms at that point.
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I believe I am not the only one facing this problem. Besides, I need the extra travel because my local track is low grip, and has huge jumps. The MST driveshafts solved the problem. The shimming wont work because by adding shims, I cant put the pin for the wheels in, indicating that that is the maximum adjustment for the CVDs already.

Re: Alcyon's RC10 Worlds Car modern racer build

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:49 pm
by alcyon
Lonestar wrote:that's if they don't bind first :mrgreen: what's with the bubble wrap on the shocks? :shock:

you might still be some way from kicking modern cars' rears :mrgreen:
hehe, maybe...we'll see !

Re: Alcyon's RC10 Worlds Car modern racer build

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:39 pm
by tony k
Nice write up Alcyon. I'm also interested in longer cvd shafts. The ones that come with the wc limit the amout of droop you can have. Do you know the part number for those MST 57mm cvd shafts and the CVD pins?

Re: Alcyon's RC10 Worlds Car modern racer build

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:30 am
by alcyon
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quote="tony k"]Nice write up Alcyon. I'm also interested in longer cvd shafts. The ones that come with the wc limit the amout of droop you can have. Do you know the part number for those MST 57mm cvd shafts and the CVD pins?[/quote]

you cant use the 2mm pins that come with mst cross joints. Use back the original rc10 ones or buy axial 1.5mmx11mm pins.

Re: Alcyon's RC10 Worlds Car modern racer build

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:48 am
by Lonestar
looks like the dogbone pins are of a different diameter than the stock ones?

Re: Alcyon's RC10 Worlds Car modern racer build

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:49 am
by alcyon
Lonestar wrote:looks like the dogbone pins are of a different diameter than the stock ones?
That is correct. So it will be a little backlash.

Re: Alcyon's RC10 Worlds Car modern racer build

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:21 am
by Lonestar
alcyon wrote:
Lonestar wrote:looks like the dogbone pins are of a different diameter than the stock ones?
That is correct. So it will be a little backlash.
the car will handle funny AND you will wear your outdrives ultra fast. And the more worn out they become, the funnier the car will handle as the rear suspension binds.

If you need that much droop, your oil/piston combo is not on the sweet spot. Go smaller holes and/or stiffer oils, if it's when landing jumps it's the holes that matter.

Honestly, man, leave the stock UJ setup alone... AE spent 10yrs+ refining it bitd... and they haven't butchered it when re-re'ing it (as opposed to the transmission box, for instance :D). It's the ultimate period suspension... you will only degrade it.

Paul

Re: Alcyon's RC10 Worlds Car modern racer build

Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 9:25 am
by tony k
Thanks Alycon.

[quote= Lonestar]the car will handle funny AND you will wear your outdrives ultra fast. And the more worn out they become, the funnier the car will handle as the rear suspension binds.

If you need that much droop, your oil/piston combo is not on the sweet spot. Go smaller holes and/or stiffer oils, if it's when landing jumps it's the holes that matter.

Honestly, man, leave the stock UJ setup alone... AE spent 10yrs+ refining it bitd... and they haven't butchered it when re-re'ing it (as opposed to the transmission box, for instance :D). It's the ultimate period suspension... you will only degrade it.

Paul[/quote]

That's a good point, the UJ setup of the worlds car Rere is great for racing. But it's not as adaptable to non-racing conditions as the older set ups that used dogbones at both ends. Alycon's solution gives more adapability, but I'm not sure I want to trash my outdrives either.

I'm trying to set up my WC Rere for driving around my property and out in the woods. Not a lot of big jumps like at a race track, but lots of rough low traction conditions where ground clearance can be an issue. If anything, I'm going to go with a lighter oil/larger piston hole setup. I want more small bump sensitivity and I'll sacrifice some big hit/ jump landing control to get it.

Re: Alcyon's RC10 Worlds Car modern racer build

Posted: Tue May 05, 2015 8:39 am
by Lonestar
tony k wrote: That's a good point, the UJ setup of the worlds car Rere is great for racing. But it's not as adaptable to non-racing conditions as the older set ups that used dogbones at both ends. Alycon's solution gives more adapability, but I'm not sure I want to trash my outdrives either.
I'm trying to set up my WC Rere for driving around my property and out in the woods. Not a lot of big jumps like at a race track, but lots of rough low traction conditions where ground clearance can be an issue.
What you need is a (i) 4wd (ii) Monster Truck.

The RC10 is a (i) 2wd (ii) race buggy. It is designed to be run under certain conditions. If you want to go bash it anywhere out in the woods, it is not the right product (for many other reasons, too), because by the time you have "adapted" it, it won't perform as well as a purpose-design bashing product... 2wd race buggies are grossly inadapted to bashing for the very reasons you just highlighted, namely poor traction, low ground clearance...

Our friend Alcyon said he'd go kick modern 2wd butts - I assume he meant at the track.

Paul

Re: Alcyon's RC10 Worlds Car modern racer build

Posted: Wed May 06, 2015 9:20 pm
by tony k
[quote= Lonestar]Our friend Alcyon said he'd go kick modern 2wd butts - I assume he meant at the track.

Paul[/quote]

I think you are right Paul. I'm looking forward to hearing how Alcyon does at the races. I'm not going to hijack his thread. If I want to discuss setting up a Rere WC as a "basher," I should probably start my own thread.

So Alcyon.... any updates?

Re: Alcyon's RC10 Worlds Car modern racer build

Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 10:01 pm
by alcyon
tony k wrote:
Lonestar wrote:Our friend Alcyon said he'd go kick modern 2wd butts - I assume he meant at the track.

Paul
I think you are right Paul. I'm looking forward to hearing how Alcyon does at the races. I'm not going to hijack his thread. If I want to discuss setting up a Rere WC as a "basher," I should probably start my own thread.

So Alcyon.... any updates?
Hang on...i am very busy with my 1:1 car at the moment..will get back in 2 weeks time...