First one I ever had... 2019 Turbo Optima re-re build

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Re: First one I ever had... 2019 Turbo Optima re-re build

Post by XLR8 »

Yeah, Kyosho shocks are very smooth and relatively leak free.
Regarding the clear gaskets, I've found them to be incredibly difficult to install without breaking them. It just takes time and some patience. I think there are spares in the spare parts bag.
I wish that Kyosho had provided softer springs with this kit - it seems a little over-sprung.
Doug

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Re: First one I ever had... 2019 Turbo Optima re-re build

Post by emerilnut »

XLR8 wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:09 am Yeah, Kyosho shocks are very smooth and relatively leak free.
Regarding the clear gaskets, I've found them to be incredibly difficult to install without breaking them. It just takes time and some patience. I think there are spares in the spare parts bag.
I wish that Kyosho had provided softer springs with this kit - it seems a little over-sprung.
It took me a long time to install those little gaskets. I was being too careful with them before I realized they were a little stronger than I thought they were. But the FIRST problem for me was finding them :lol: . I think I wasted 15 minutes looking around and thinking that I got a box where they were left out.

I agree that they're oversprung. I love when a fully laden RC car is set down on the table you see the suspension settle about a 1/2 inch or so. I get the feeling that this car won't do that because the springs are so stiff. :D
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Re: First one I ever had... 2019 Turbo Optima re-re build

Post by XLR8 »

emerilnut wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:08 pm
It took me a long time to install those little gaskets. I was being too careful with them before I realized they were a little stronger than I thought they were. But the FIRST problem for me was finding them :lol: . I think I wasted 15 minutes looking around and thinking that I got a box where they were left out.

I agree that they're oversprung. I love when a fully laden RC car is set down on the table you see the suspension settle about a 1/2 inch or so. I get the feeling that this car won't do that because the springs are so stiff. :D
I'm with you on that - 1:1 cars settle on their springs quite a bit after they're removed from the jack stands. However, even with a heavy 3000mah 7-cell NiMH battery and a brushed motor installed in my "display car", it barely settles - maybe 1/4" or less. If I were planning to run my car a lot, I'd replace those springs.
BTW, that dark candy red over silver is going to look amazing on your car -- good choice!!!
Doug

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Re: First one I ever had... 2019 Turbo Optima re-re build

Post by Coelacanth »

Kyosho really got things right way back in the mid-80's with the Option House gold shocks. They're butter-smooth and rarely leak. I've bought many sets of decades-old used gold shocks, opened them up and found they were still filled with clear shock oil. These never even had the clear plastic gaskets, I wonder why the new re-re shocks would go that route? They were horrible on the original red Optima/Javelin shocks back in the day...which were known for leaking and being a pain to overhaul, for having those gaskets and needing that hinky-dink tool to open the shock caps.
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Re: First one I ever had... 2019 Turbo Optima re-re build

Post by XLR8 »

Coelacanth wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:21 pm Kyosho really got things right way back in the mid-80's with the Option House gold shocks. They're butter-smooth and rarely leak. I've bought many sets of decades-old used gold shocks, opened them up and found they were still filled with clear shock oil. These never even had the clear plastic gaskets, I wonder why the new re-re shocks would go that route? They were horrible on the original red Optima/Javelin shocks back in the day...which were known for leaking and being a pain to overhaul, for having those gaskets and needing that hinky-dink tool to open the shock caps.
You make a good point, and I'm confident that you'll know more about this than I, but didn't the vintage gold shocks use a circlip to retain the seals? If so then perhaps Kyosho reckoned that it was less hassle (and safer) for their customers to install the dreaded clear gasket once than to fiddle with the retainer clip every time the shock was rebuilt. The original red shocks don't use a top cap (the cylinder was simply bored to a depth) so a bottom cap (with a seal) is a necessity. Maybe a very small profile o-ring would have been a more reliable bottom cap seal than the clear gasket - and probably less costly as well if it's a standard uniform size. As for the hinky tools, I can offer no defense - they're a hassle to use especially after they've become soaked with shock oil.
So I guess it's down to hinky tools vs. circlip pliers - choose your instrument of torture.
Again, I'm assuming the vintage gold shocks use a circlip.
Doug

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Re: First one I ever had... 2019 Turbo Optima re-re build

Post by Coelacanth »

You're right, the gold shocks did have C-clips to retain the 2 O-rings and plastic shock collar. I can't remember ever really having issues installing or removing those, or ever needing a special tool, though...slip an X-Acto blade tip underneath the exposed inward tip of the C-clip and a bit of a push and the C-clip will pop out and slip down the shock shaft right into your hand. Once they were in, they stayed in pretty well, and you sometimes don't even need to remove that portion of the shocks to rebuild them. I'm sure they could pop off as easily as the white gaskets, but they won't wear out, won't have the plastic get brittle over time and crack, or crack just because they're not lined up just right before threading on the shock cap.

The red anodized shocks were a pretty piece of kit but I hated 'em as far as function goes.
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Re: First one I ever had... 2019 Turbo Optima re-re build

Post by emerilnut »

I wish I could remember how bad the old red shocks were. I did own an Ultima at one time back in 90-91, but I don't remember a thing about it.... I also can't remember why I don't still have it. I'm a packrat (which is why I have the old RC10), so at some point I saw fit to throw away or sell the Ultima, but I have no recollection of that event. I would like to get my hands on the re-re Ultima, but the wife would look at me too funny. Plus, I've already had it. In the case of the Turbo Optima, this is a car I always wanted and couldn't have.
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Late-model stuff: Durango DEX210 v1 and my daughter's Traxxas Rustler

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Re: First one I ever had... 2019 Turbo Optima re-re build

Post by emerilnut »

OK, so the car is almost finished... This is all that I could finish without the electronics being here yet.

I went ahead and put the tires together but haven't glued them down.
20190930_223345.jpg

Then I took my time (for the first time ever) to really trim the body out properly.
20190930_223119.jpg
20190930_223137.jpg
20190930_223126.jpg

She's now ready for paint, which hasn't arrived yet. At any rate, I won't be able to paint until the weekend.
Proud owner of an RC10 Championship Edition from way back in '92
Late-model stuff: Durango DEX210 v1 and my daughter's Traxxas Rustler

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Re: First one I ever had... 2019 Turbo Optima re-re build

Post by Lonestar »

Looking good :)

all cars from that era except the RC10 were way oversprung and way overdamped... this, combined with short a-arms is what drove the appalling handling of that era... and one of the main reasons why the RC10 won absolutely everything for so many years. they were the only ones to have the hydro/spring combo "right".
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Re: First one I ever had... 2019 Turbo Optima re-re build

Post by emerilnut »

My new dilemma is the tires. I really want this car to have the original OT66 tires from the 1986 era
Orginial Box Art.jpg
It looks like I can get these from Marwan. They say their repro tires can fit on the original wheels, but if I get some original wheels, then they won't fit on the new car's 12mm hexes, right? Were the original OT66 tires 2 inches? or 1.9?

My basic question is this... Can I get these OT66 tires from Marwan and install them on the newer 2-inch OTH245W wheels that have the newer 12mm mount?
Proud owner of an RC10 Championship Edition from way back in '92
Late-model stuff: Durango DEX210 v1 and my daughter's Traxxas Rustler

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Re: First one I ever had... 2019 Turbo Optima re-re build

Post by XLR8 »

I agree, the modern tires supplied in the kit really don't suit this model. I've looked into this before and as I recall the wheel diameter hasn't changed for the re-re model. ... and neither has the hex size. So Marwan's OT-66 tires should fit the re-re wheels.
The main difference is that the original wheels were 3-piece, internal bead-lock design while the re-re wheels are 1-piece, glue-on design (less costly to manufacture).
Doug

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Re: First one I ever had... 2019 Turbo Optima re-re build

Post by XLR8 »

Lonestar wrote: Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:51 pm Looking good :)

all cars from that era except the RC10 were way oversprung and way overdamped... this, combined with short a-arms is what drove the appalling handling of that era... and one of the main reasons why the RC10 won absolutely everything for so many years. they were the only ones to have the hydro/spring combo "right".
Well, perhaps most cars were oversprung - certainly many cars from Tamiya were (and are) grossly oversprung (just watch any video and see how they pogo around the track, bouncing on their tires, as if they lack any suspension at all). I can recall that my original Ultima and CAT's seemed to have been more correctly sprung.
In this instance, I reckon Kyosho choose the gold springs for aesthetic reasons - it's all about the GOLD. :lol:


It seems that with every runner I build, one thing I always do is hunt through my box of springs searching for softer ones to replace the harder kit springs.
Doug

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Re: First one I ever had... 2019 Turbo Optima re-re build

Post by Coelacanth »

It's also worth pointing out that the RC10 was indeed kicking all a$$ and taking names...UNTIL the Optima hit the scene. Back then, 4WD cars were mostly heavy clunkers that performed poorly in competition, especially against RWD cars, and back then, RWD and 4WD competed together in the same classes. When it arrived, with its lightweight frame-rail design, the OPTIMA kicked everything's butt. I think it was the '86 ROAR Nats, wasn't it, where the Optima took 8 of the top 10 positions, including 1, 2, 3, 4...it was published in an article in the Tower Hobbies catalog of that year. For the first time, the RC10 was no longer the undisputed champ. The Optima might've been one of the reasons why 4WD and RWD classes became segregated from that point on...and the RC10 became the undisputed champ--of RWD. :wink:

https://www.rc10talk.com/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=39658&hilit=1986

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Re: First one I ever had... 2019 Turbo Optima re-re build

Post by keithrc »

I just tried a Marwan OT-66 tyre on a re-release Turbo Optima wheel and it fitted well. I didn't use the foam inserts or the inner beadlock band. I'm not sure if you'd need either one as the OT-66's are harder than the re-release kit tyres. FYI, might be an idea to warm the tyre up before fitting it on the wheel.

Edit, the re-release wheels will fit the original Turbo Optima, the hex drive is the same. So fitting original wheels ($$) and tyres to a re-release TO won't be a problem.


Keith :wink:

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Re: First one I ever had... 2019 Turbo Optima re-re build

Post by emerilnut »

keithrc wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:33 am I just tried a Marwan OT-66 tyre on a re-release Turbo Optima wheel and it fitted well. I didn't use the foam inserts or the inner beadlock band. I'm not sure if you'd need either one as the OT-66's are harder than the re-release kit tyres. FYI, might be an idea to warm the tyre up before fitting it on the wheel.

Edit, the re-release wheels will fit the original Turbo Optima, the hex drive is the same. So fitting original wheels ($$) and tyres to a re-release TO won't be a problem.


Keith :wink:
Thanks for that info. I was just assuming the TO wheel hubs were similar to my RC10 hubs, with the cross pins. Good to know the original was also 12mm hex.
Proud owner of an RC10 Championship Edition from way back in '92
Late-model stuff: Durango DEX210 v1 and my daughter's Traxxas Rustler

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