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Vintage-Modern Build to be Raced
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:42 am
by eR1c
I am new to this forum, yet wanted to share my most recent RC10 build.
I plan to race this buggy in a vintage 2wd class (if it doesn't qualify because of some of the mod's I'll just use it for fun/practice). I have a few nice RC10's that I don't run, yet wanted something that I could use and not worry about scratching or parts breaking. My car will be using modern re-release parts as well as vintage parts and some stuff from modern RC10 vehicles.
Not much at the moment, but here is my progress thus far:
I am using Andy's A-arms all around and upgraded a vintage stealth transmission to a World's transmission.
The chassis is one of the black re-release ones, I found it online for $49 a while ago. The rest of the suspension mounting parts, bulkhead, motor plate and nose plate are all vintage parts. I polished the nose tubes, can't decide if I want to paint them black or leave them as is. For now I am leaving.
more pict's to come as I complete the build...
Re: Vintage-Modern Build to be Raced
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:54 am
by eR1c
...started working on the front shocks.
Looks like B5 shocks will work!
They aren't fully mounted, yet I think these will be good..
Re: Vintage-Modern Build to be Raced
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:19 pm
by bluewormx
Hi, project looking good.
I can share my experience from racing my worlds rere. There are a few things You need to do:
Use 6565 transmission case and 6570 idler (the rere one is unusable, the gear mesh is wrong).
The 8-32 x 1/2" rere screw break on jumps the philips head goes in too deep and they are weak. use originals or get some proper aviation screws like the originals bare in mind they have 100 deg countersink not the standard 82deg.
The CVA have an issue also the shafts are too short, AE screwed it up! to run them you need to reduce droop ( car will jump badly with reduced droop ). Best solution is to use B44.2 center rear shaft part # 9911. These are hard to find but are the right length. other options are B2 Universal joints. these are the right length and fit.
Some people remove the blue spacer and put it on the other side or simply shim to recover the distance on the inside.
I can see you have a Rusty design front tower, I assume its for 0.89"(23mm) shock bodies. Your problem is that this tower is for Associated arms. the Andy's arms where designed for 0.56" shock bodies and only have the inside shock position. The geometry will be wrong. Use Associated wide arms just not the rere ones. All replacement arms sold until recently where original. The reason: the rere arms are weeker and more brittle, they have a wider area for the B5 shock ball cup. If you break one the replacement will bind since it has more material in this area, it will need to be filled down. (not fun at a race). Use B6 shock ball cups part # 91721(short).
I also recommend using modern ball cups at least on the steering arm end.
Its also a good idea to put a nut on the rear of the rear arm mounts, also the rear motor guard bend mod is a good Idea.
I look forward to seeing your progress.
Re: Vintage-Modern Build to be Raced
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:32 pm
by XLR8
Very nice start Eric.
Just build the car, race it and have fun!!!
If you're seeking a even greater driving challenge, build yourself a box-stock early short-arm car. They're a hoot!! Really takes you back.
Re: Vintage-Modern Build to be Raced
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:10 am
by Nick
bluewormx wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:19 pm
Hi, project looking good.
I can share my experience from racing my worlds rere. There are a few things You need to do:
Use 6565 transmission case and 6570 idler (the rere one is unusable, the gear mesh is wrong).
The 8-32 x 1/2" rere screw break on jumps the philips head goes in too deep and they are weak. use originals or get some proper aviation screws like the originals bare in mind they have 100 deg countersink not the standard 82deg.
The CVA have an issue also the shafts are too short, AE screwed it up! to run them you need to reduce droop ( car will jump badly with reduced droop ). Best solution is to use B44.2 center rear shaft part # 9911. These are hard to find but are the right length. other options are B2 Universal joints. these are the right length and fit.
Some people remove the blue spacer and put it on the other side or simply shim to recover the distance on the inside.
I can see you have a Rusty design front tower, I assume its for 0.89"(23mm) shock bodies. Your problem is that this tower is for Associated arms. the Andy's arms where designed for 0.56" shock bodies and only have the inside shock position. The geometry will be wrong. Use Associated wide arms just not the rere ones. All replacement arms sold until recently where original. The reason: the rere arms are weeker and more brittle, they have a wider area for the B5 shock ball cup. If you break one the replacement will bind since it has more material in this area, it will need to be filled down. (not fun at a race). Use B6 shock ball cups part # 91721(short).
I also recommend using modern ball cups at least on the steering arm end.
Its also a good idea to put a nut on the rear of the rear arm mounts, also the rear motor guard bend mod is a good Idea.
I look forward to seeing your progress.
That's some great information right there, much appreciated!
Nick
Re: Vintage-Modern Build to be Raced
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:14 pm
by radioactivity
Eric, nice start to a build!
Good info from bluewormx. It does raise a couple of questions for me however.
To start I haven’t raced in 25 years so I could easily be mistaken but…
“The CVA have an issue also the shafts are too short, AE screwed up!” Agreed!
I haven’t been able to find any of the Associated 9911 or the Associated B2 universal joints for a reasonable price. They may be more available in EU?
Another possibility might be using Yokomo 60.5mm Rear Universal Bone YOKZ2-010RB and Yokomo C-Clip Universal Joint Pin Set YOKBM-010TPC.
That setup uses B4 rear hubs. Search Yokomo CVA in forums.
https://www.rc10talk.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=34582&p=385999&hilit=Yokomo+CVA#p385999
“The Andy's arms where designed for 0.56" shock bodies and only have the inside shock position. The geometry will be wrong” Agreed
Finding older front arms is fairly difficult as well, so to try and keep the Andy’s arms…
I think the implied geometry problem is the fact that the shocks will not be perpendicular to the arms under full compression. This might be mitigated by using the inner upper mounting holes on the shock tower.
If it is a spring rate/ oil weight problem instead of 91635 3.75 green springs, maybe 91638 4.1lb white springs and thicker oil?
I hope some one weighs in on this because I may be wrong, it is just hard to find some of these parts.
Chuck
Re: Vintage-Modern Build to be Raced
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:01 pm
by bluewormx
The CVA problem
The CVA issue has a free fix.
Which is quite ugly.
The cheap fix is x8 3/16” shims.
Much more elegant.
More expensive:
that’s with B44.2 center rear axle part 9911.
NOTE: the car in all pictures is shown in the long wheel base configuration (axles swept back).
The CVA Issue is less severe in short wheel base configuration.
I believe LWB handles better on high grip. (Astro/Carpet)
SWB handles better low grip (Dirt)
YMMV
Re: Vintage-Modern Build to be Raced
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:18 pm
by eR1c
Thank you for the suggestions,
I knew this wouldn't be a straight forward build and expect some trial and error (I've built many RC cars over the years).
As for the A-arms, I do have a set of Re-Re as well as vintage "CE" long arms so can easily swap the Andy's I have out.
My transmission, I am using all of the Re-re parts for the internal gears, including the idle gear. ...but i'll look up the #'s you provided to better understand what your referring to about the mesh being incorrect.
more work to be done!
and waiting for some rear shocks to arrive before I can move along further w/ this.
Re: Vintage-Modern Build to be Raced
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:21 pm
by eR1c
NOTE: the car in all pictures is shown in the long wheel base configuration (axles swept back).
The CVA Issue is less severe in short wheel base configuration.
I believe LWB handles better on high grip. (Astro/Carpet)
I haven't started on the front/rear axles ..yet knew they'd be a challenge from what I've read.
I appreciate your advice here. I will be running on indoor carpet (so LWB for me).
....work tomorrow, then hope to get back on this a bit Saturday.
First up will be to swap my A-arms all around.
Re: Vintage-Modern Build to be Raced
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:26 pm
by eR1c
I think the implied geometry problem is the fact that the shocks will not be perpendicular to the arms under full compression. This might be mitigated by using the inner upper mounting holes on the shock tower.
If it is a spring rate/ oil weight problem instead of 91635 3.75 green springs, maybe 91638 4.1lb white springs and thicker oil?
Yes, I can try that as there are a few mounting positions on the upper portion of the tower ...I have a few modern buggies that I race, so will look to their setups as well to get this one right.
Also testing at the track will be the biggest help of course.
Re: Vintage-Modern Build to be Raced
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:16 pm
by eR1c
I swapped my Andy's A-arms for a set of RC10 arms, ...I am not sure if these are re-release, the packaging looks really old and I've had them in my RC closet for years...
the geometry in the front looks better, ...i have the shocks held in place w/ toothpicks for now, i'll mount them up later. Once they are mounted they'll move in a bit more on the upper shock tower (the toothpicks are allowing each shock to kind of swing out from the inner hole).
Re: Vintage-Modern Build to be Raced
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:14 am
by bluewormx
Those are original arms
Note ribbing only on original arms.
ReRe front arms where never available as spares.
Re: Vintage-Modern Build to be Raced
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:59 am
by eR1c
oh wow, -I feel guilty opening the packaging! ...but I guess what is the point if you just sell them or never use them.
I have a few other things in a box, i'll have to go through it Saturday when I am off.
--
My goal for the weekend is to get the shocks front/rear mounted up.
Looks like there are several options to run modern rims, I am exploring some of those now, including the suggestions you and others have made here.
Re: Vintage-Modern Build to be Raced
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:08 am
by jwscab
don't worry about it. there are plenty of them out there, and you need them for your build.
Re: Vintage-Modern Build to be Raced
Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 9:21 pm
by eR1c
LOL, I was all set to start on the shocks, yet couldn't find them and I swore they were in a package on my work table.
Just found out the wife wrapped the package as she thought it was a gift for someone (the shocks were still in the bubble wrap package). ...now that I figured out where they went I can get going on this.