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Original Ultima popularity question
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:48 am
by Saito
For those that were "there" back in the day, how popular was the original Ultima? From what I remember as a kid, there was much interest in Kyosho claiming and then succeeding in making the Ultima the "next world champion". After that though, attention seemed to return to the RC10 mostly until the Losi JR-X2 came out. Even today, the rivalry between the JR-X2 and the RC10 seems to take center stage in the history books, while the Ultima's is largely unmentioned. Was that because of the "behind the scenes" dealings between the Losi's and Associated that led to the JR-X2's creation? The Ultima seems like a pretty nice buggy. Was there parts distribution issues that held it back or did it just not capture peoples' attention the way the JR-X2 did to pull away enough of the RC10 faithful?
Re: Original Ultima popularity question
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:13 am
by Coelacanth
Saito wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:48 am
For those that were "there" back in the day, how popular was the original Ultima? From what I remember as a kid, there was much interest in Kyosho claiming and then succeeding in making the Ultima the "next world champion". After that though, attention seemed to return to the RC10 mostly until the Losi JR-X2 came out. Even today, the rivalry between the JR-X2 and the RC10 seems to take center stage in the history books, while the Ultima's is largely unmentioned. Was that because of the "behind the scenes" dealings between the Losi's and Associated that led to the JR-X2's creation? The Ultima seems like a pretty nice buggy. Was there parts distribution issues that held it back or did it just not capture peoples' attention the way the JR-X2 did to pull away enough of the RC10 faithful?
I was in my early 20's back then, working at a hobby store. I remember when news came out that Kyosho was releasing the Ultima, it was big news because the Optima was winning races all over the place...remember back in those days, 4WD and RWD cars would race together, as 4WD cars really couldn't keep up to the RC10's and other RWD cars...until the Optima came out, and it was a game-changer. Arguably responsible for the future segregation of 4WD and RWD racing classes. Then right on the heels of the Optima's success was the newly-announced Ultima! I actually seem to remember more guys with RC10's were talking about the Ultima than the Kyosho guys...probably because they were concerned.
I was a builder more than a racer, but I do recall hearing the Ultima was a good-performing racer, and it was a quite popular seller, too.
Re: Original Ultima popularity question
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:43 pm
by XLR8
I wasn't aware of any behind the scenes dealings but maybe there were. I was in college at the time and a fairly avid weekend racer. Myself and about 10 or 15 racer friends from our home track in Springfield traveled frequently to races throughout central Illinois, down to St. Louis and even to Davenport Iowa between '86 and early '94. As I recall, I was the only member of our group who raced an Ultima. I ran it one or two seasons then sold it or maybe I traded it for something else - not sure. Anyway, I ran my car box-stock (in the "540" class) with a reasonable degree of success while I ran the RC10 and the CAT in modified classes. Then it was over. Not sure why but the Ultima really didn't seem to catch on in our area.
Now I have three in the collection; a rere and Turbo Ultima shelfers and a custom LWB runner car which I enjoy very much.
Re: Original Ultima popularity question
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:12 pm
by GoMachV
I think it irritated a lot of potential customers when they saw that the car that won the big race shared very little with the kit they could buy in the store. While it was a capable racer when hopped up, out of the box it lacked a lot. By the time a true racer came out, the design was outdated. If the pro had come earlier I think it would have done a lot better.
Re: Original Ultima popularity question
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:47 am
by Saito
XLR8 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:43 pm
I wasn't aware of any behind the scenes dealings but maybe there were. I was in college at the time and a fairly avid weekend racer. Myself and about 10 or 15 racer friends from our home track in Springfield traveled frequently to races throughout central Illinois, down to St. Louis and even to Davenport Iowa between '86 and early '94. As I recall, I was the only member of our group who raced an Ultima. I ran it one or two seasons then sold it or maybe I traded it for something else - not sure. Anyway, I ran my car box-stock (in the "540" class) with a reasonable degree of success while I ran the RC10 and the CAT in modified classes. Then it was over. Not sure why but the Ultima really didn't seem to catch on in our area.
Now I have three in the collection; a rere and Turbo Ultima shelfers and a custom LWB runner car which I enjoy very much.
IIRC, I think Gil Losi Jr. helped with some development work for Associated. Associated supposedly agreed to allot the Losi's hobby shop a large number of the RC10 kits. They supposedly went back on their word which didn't make the Losi's happy. This potentially led to the JR-X2's development as competition for the RC10. Now, there's two sides to every story and I'm just relaying what I've read on the interwebs, so I don't claim to have any special knowledge of what went down.
GoMachV wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:12 pm
I think it irritated a lot of potential customers when they saw that the car that won the big race shared very little with the kit they could buy in the store. While it was a capable racer when hopped up, out of the box it lacked a lot. By the time a true racer came out, the design was outdated. If the pro had come earlier I think it would have done a lot better.
Good point. The car Joel won with didn't look anything like the original kit. I never gave the original much thought because of this and didn't really get up close to one until I got the rerelease. While I know the rerelease is improved, I was surprised the basic design was actually better than I realized.
Re: Original Ultima popularity question
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:33 am
by XLR8
GoMachV wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:12 pm
I think it irritated a lot of potential customers when they saw that the car that won the big race shared very little with the kit they could buy in the store. While it was a capable racer when hopped up, out of the box it lacked a lot. By the time a true racer came out, the design was outdated. If the pro had come earlier I think it would have done a lot better.
I sold my car early and really didn't think about it afterwords but what you've said seems very reasonable. Looking back, the Pro was closer to the car Johnson raced so that's what Kyosho should have offered from the beginning.
While I had success with the Ultima on the track, bear in mind that I was competing against Hornets and Frogs and the occasional Scorpion, etc. in stock classes. The Ultima's design was very advanced when compared to many other entry level cars on the market at that time.
If anyone who is a fan of vintage RC buggies is thinking about buying a new Ultima to run, I'd say go ahead. I don't think you will be disappointed. It's a very good car.
Re: Original Ultima popularity question
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:52 am
by GoMachV
I agree, the rerelease is an amazingly good build. The transmission has an almost industrial sound to it. Really my only complaint are those damn shock gaskets lol.
Re: Original Ultima popularity question
Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:09 pm
by coxbros1
I agree, those gaskets are the worst to put on....on another note, Joel's car wasnt anything like u could buy, but 2nd and 3rd place had the aluminum ladder chassis!
Also, i ordered some Monster Beetle Factory Works shock stays on Ebay from you just now....plain fiberglass color is cool!!