Raider and Rocky Gearbox Mod - How to Run Taller Gearing (bigger than a 15T Pinion)

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Re: Raider and Rocky Gearbox Mod - How to Run Taller Gearing (bigger than a 15T Pinion)

Post by 1300GT »

From memory nothing had to be modified as the spur lost 4 teeth the pinion gained 4 teeth. Going off the Rocky manual it looks like holes "A" and "D" are used to mount the 14 tooth pinion with the 36 tooth spur/idler. They would be the mounting holes to use then.
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Re: Raider and Rocky Gearbox Mod - How to Run Taller Gearing (bigger than a 15T Pinion)

Post by Coelacanth »

I wish I had a Rocky so I could see if I could find some way to resolve that bad bump-steer issue. I realize that car's steering setup is not too practical and difficult to modify.
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Re: Raider and Rocky Gearbox Mod - How to Run Taller Gearing (bigger than a 15T Pinion)

Post by Snaab9-2 »

Coelacanth wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:28 pm I wish I had a Rocky so I could see if I could find some way to resolve that bad bump-steer issue. I realize that car's steering setup is not too practical and difficult to modify.
If I lived near you I would gladly have you look at my Raider with the same issue! :mrgreen:

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Re: Raider and Rocky Gearbox Mod - How to Run Taller Gearing (bigger than a 15T Pinion)

Post by Coelacanth »

I restored an AYK Buffalo that, if built according to the manual, had a bad bump-steer issue just like your Rocky. It was easily remedied on that car by reversing the installation of the outer tie-rod ball-studs on the steering knuckles, so the balls were pointing down instead of up, which brought the tie-rod arms more parallel to the front control arms' angle.

You can see it in this image; the outer tie-rod balls are installed on top of the knuckles originally, but installing them from beneath made all the difference. Is that do-able with the Rocky?

Image
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Re: Raider and Rocky Gearbox Mod - How to Run Taller Gearing (bigger than a 15T Pinion)

Post by AscotConversion »

Could you try a CRP frog motor mount? Or something similar?
crpfrog.jpg
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Re: Raider and Rocky Gearbox Mod - How to Run Taller Gearing (bigger than a 15T Pinion)

Post by cas22 »

Just ordered a 32/22 idler gear from these guys in Spain,

https://www.ebay.com/usr/vintage-tamiyaparts


https://www.ebay.com/itm/313684992455

They have a bag full of them selling separately, may be of some use if you are hunting for one.


Cheers
Craig

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Re: Raider and Rocky Gearbox Mod - How to Run Taller Gearing (bigger than a 15T Pinion)

Post by Snaab9-2 »

Awesome!

Can you GPS it before and after? What pinion are you going to use? What motor/ESC? With a 17 or 18!tooth pinion I found it slow to accelerate with a brushed motor and it was a lot of load on my vintage ESC. Brushless it works great!

Mine hit 56 mph with a low capacity 3s $13 LIPO.😂

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Re: Raider and Rocky Gearbox Mod - How to Run Taller Gearing (bigger than a 15T Pinion)

Post by Delorean »

Thanks Cas22!!

Also I know its been spoken about in here but I haven't actually seen anyone state it exactly. Can anyone confirm that when running the 32 tooth idler, that the 18 tooth pinion fits using the one of the standard motor mount holes with no modification? Cheers

Also if I wanted to run smaller pinions like a 14 or 15 tooth with the 32 idler do they also work without modification?

Cheers

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Re: Raider and Rocky Gearbox Mod - How to Run Taller Gearing (bigger than a 15T Pinion)

Post by Snaab9-2 »

Delorean wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 4:40 am Thanks Cas22!!

Also I know its been spoken about in here but I haven't actually seen anyone state it exactly. Can anyone confirm that when running the 32 tooth idler, that the 18 tooth pinion fits using the one of the standard motor mount holes with no modification? Cheers

Also if I wanted to run smaller pinions like a 14 or 15 tooth with the 32 idler do they also work without modification?

Cheers
Check out my YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2WztgtojiKq-cuDqxNbByQ. I have lots of videos on this as I had the same question and I couldn't find anything definitive on it either. I made a how to video on fitting the 18 tooth pinion/32 tooth idle gear (no modifications needed), how to fit bigger than a 15 tooth pinion (I also fitted a 17 tooth pinion with a 32 tooth idle gear - this took modifications). For either a 17 or 18 tooth pinion (and likely a 16 tooth was well), you can't install it on the motor before mounting the motor - you have to mount the motor and then install the pinion from the top on the gearbox (the bigger pinions can't fit through the hole in the metal motor mount).

Video on on how to fit 18 tooth pinion:

https://youtu.be/-dR7keGl4vQ

Details on other pinion combinations with the 32 tooth idle gear:

https://youtu.be/5iCRBhjmmfI

My budget 56 mph setup (pre custom ball diff):

https://youtu.be/_HamgQrZVOk

If you are running a brushed motor, I would avoid the 32 tooth idle gear with a 17 or 18 tooth pinion. I found that it was slow to accelerate (slower than I expected) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-uYe3XMFtI and it got my vintage ESC really hot really quickly. With a brushless setup however, it is the only way I would run it as brushless setups need tall gear to take advantage of their torque (without tall gear, they really are not all that fast).

As far as running the 32 tooth idle gear with a 14 or 15 tooth pinion, according to the Rocky's manual you can (I never tried it). My second video link above has info on that/screen shots from the Rocky's manual that details this combination.

If you could GPS your car with the current setup and then with whatever combo you end up going with, I would be really interested in seeing the difference and I neglected to GPS mine with the stock gearing. With a 15t brushed motor I am guess it did in the low 20 mph range with the stock gear (I think with the stock 22T Mega Motor it would have been in the high teens and with a Le Mans 05 stock probably closer to 16 mph... though a bit slower on NiCD (I would love to see data but I can't get anyone to GPS their cars!). With the 17 tooth pinion and a 32 tooth idle gear it went 28 mph. With my brushless setup and the 17/32 tooth setup, it went 37 mph. Then with an 18/32 setup, it went 41 and eventually 42 mph!. All of this was with a 4200 mAh 2S LIPO. Then with a $13 2,200 mAh 3S battery, it went 56 mph. No doubt with a better 3S it would be right around 60 mph (which is just stupid fast for a Raider).

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Re: Raider and Rocky Gearbox Mod - How to Run Taller Gearing (bigger than a 15T Pinion)

Post by Delorean »

Snaab9-2 wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:24 am
Delorean wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 4:40 am Thanks Cas22!!

Also I know its been spoken about in here but I haven't actually seen anyone state it exactly. Can anyone confirm that when running the 32 tooth idler, that the 18 tooth pinion fits using the one of the standard motor mount holes with no modification? Cheers

Also if I wanted to run smaller pinions like a 14 or 15 tooth with the 32 idler do they also work without modification?

Cheers
Check out my YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2WztgtojiKq-cuDqxNbByQ. I have lots of videos on this as I had the same question and I couldn't find anything definitive on it either. I made a how to video on fitting the 18 tooth pinion/32 tooth idle gear (no modifications needed), how to fit bigger than a 15 tooth pinion (I also fitted a 17 tooth pinion with a 32 tooth idle gear - this took modifications). For either a 17 or 18 tooth pinion (and likely a 16 tooth was well), you can't install it on the motor before mounting the motor - you have to mount the motor and then install the pinion from the top on the gearbox (the bigger pinions can't fit through the hole in the metal motor mount).

Video on on how to fit 18 tooth pinion:

https://youtu.be/-dR7keGl4vQ

Details on other pinion combinations with the 32 tooth idle gear:

https://youtu.be/5iCRBhjmmfI

My budget 56 mph setup (pre custom ball diff):

https://youtu.be/_HamgQrZVOk

If you are running a brushed motor, I would avoid the 32 tooth idle gear with a 17 or 18 tooth pinion. I found that it was slow to accelerate (slower than I expected) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-uYe3XMFtI and it got my vintage ESC really hot really quickly. With a brushless setup however, it is the only way I would run it as brushless setups need tall gear to take advantage of their torque (without tall gear, they really are not all that fast).

As far as running the 32 tooth idle gear with a 14 or 15 tooth pinion, according to the Rocky's manual you can (I never tried it). My second video link above has info on that/screen shots from the Rocky's manual that details this combination.

If you could GPS your car with the current setup and then with whatever combo you end up going with, I would be really interested in seeing the difference and I neglected to GPS mine with the stock gearing. With a 15t brushed motor I am guess it did in the low 20 mph range with the stock gear (I think with the stock 22T Mega Motor it would have been in the high teens and with a Le Mans 05 stock probably closer to 16 mph... though a bit slower on NiCD (I would love to see data but I can't get anyone to GPS their cars!). With the 17 tooth pinion and a 32 tooth idle gear it went 28 mph. With my brushless setup and the 17/32 tooth setup, it went 37 mph. Then with an 18/32 setup, it went 41 and eventually 42 mph!. All of this was with a 4200 mAh 2S LIPO. Then with a $13 2,200 mAh 3S battery, it went 56 mph. No doubt with a better 3S it would be right around 60 mph (which is just stupid fast for a Raider).
Wow awesome mate, thanks for the super-informative post

Cheers!

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Re: Raider and Rocky Gearbox Mod - How to Run Taller Gearing (bigger than a 15T Pinion)

Post by Snaab9-2 »

Delorean wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 5:51 am
Snaab9-2 wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:24 am
Delorean wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 4:40 am Thanks Cas22!!

Also I know its been spoken about in here but I haven't actually seen anyone state it exactly. Can anyone confirm that when running the 32 tooth idler, that the 18 tooth pinion fits using the one of the standard motor mount holes with no modification? Cheers

Also if I wanted to run smaller pinions like a 14 or 15 tooth with the 32 idler do they also work without modification?

Cheers
Check out my YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2WztgtojiKq-cuDqxNbByQ. I have lots of videos on this as I had the same question and I couldn't find anything definitive on it either. I made a how to video on fitting the 18 tooth pinion/32 tooth idle gear (no modifications needed), how to fit bigger than a 15 tooth pinion (I also fitted a 17 tooth pinion with a 32 tooth idle gear - this took modifications). For either a 17 or 18 tooth pinion (and likely a 16 tooth was well), you can't install it on the motor before mounting the motor - you have to mount the motor and then install the pinion from the top on the gearbox (the bigger pinions can't fit through the hole in the metal motor mount).

Video on on how to fit 18 tooth pinion:

https://youtu.be/-dR7keGl4vQ

Details on other pinion combinations with the 32 tooth idle gear:

https://youtu.be/5iCRBhjmmfI

My budget 56 mph setup (pre custom ball diff):

https://youtu.be/_HamgQrZVOk

If you are running a brushed motor, I would avoid the 32 tooth idle gear with a 17 or 18 tooth pinion. I found that it was slow to accelerate (slower than I expected) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-uYe3XMFtI and it got my vintage ESC really hot really quickly. With a brushless setup however, it is the only way I would run it as brushless setups need tall gear to take advantage of their torque (without tall gear, they really are not all that fast).

As far as running the 32 tooth idle gear with a 14 or 15 tooth pinion, according to the Rocky's manual you can (I never tried it). My second video link above has info on that/screen shots from the Rocky's manual that details this combination.

If you could GPS your car with the current setup and then with whatever combo you end up going with, I would be really interested in seeing the difference and I neglected to GPS mine with the stock gearing. With a 15t brushed motor I am guess it did in the low 20 mph range with the stock gear (I think with the stock 22T Mega Motor it would have been in the high teens and with a Le Mans 05 stock probably closer to 16 mph... though a bit slower on NiCD (I would love to see data but I can't get anyone to GPS their cars!). With the 17 tooth pinion and a 32 tooth idle gear it went 28 mph. With my brushless setup and the 17/32 tooth setup, it went 37 mph. Then with an 18/32 setup, it went 41 and eventually 42 mph!. All of this was with a 4200 mAh 2S LIPO. Then with a $13 2,200 mAh 3S battery, it went 56 mph. No doubt with a better 3S it would be right around 60 mph (which is just stupid fast for a Raider).
Wow awesome mate, thanks for the super-informative post

Cheers!
Thank you!

The Raider is getting ready to come out of retirement with a custom 30t idle gear and a 20t pinion. She may hit 70 mph if I can keep it on the road. :D

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