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I was wondering how these reissued buggies perform with today’s electrics? I read Kyosho have tweaked them for BL & LiPo but presumably the geometry is the same so does vast amounts of power release previously unseen potential in these cars or does it just highlight the ageing chassis design & make them fall over a lot.

Just because you can put brushless power in them, it doesn't mean that you have to aim for warp speed.

Brushed power could surpass the design limitations, stupid power will only amplify it. Now, modern esc and radio programming could probably be used to tweak all the usefulness from the design.

I think it sorta depends on the car. I'd say that adding brushless power can amplify performance faults. Since you've posted your question in the Kyosho forum, I can tell you that I have a well used vintage Optima runner with updated running gear so it handles the brushless 10.5's power okay but it's frustrating to drive fast; feels heavy and very unpredictable overall. With a more period correct brushed motor, the Optima is much more settled and fun to drive.
Big power has its place but sometimes its fun to drive a car with a motor it was designed for.

I can tell you 1st hand the Ultima rere, although I love it and it's a great car, and can handle all the power reliably, handles like dog crap....

I used to run my vintage Turbo Optima with a Trinity 16T brushed motor. On many surfaces (when geared for speed) that motor pushed it too fast for the car to make turns. The front tires would turn the nose of the car, but it would still be traveling straight basically doing flat spin cartwheels until it got slowed down.

Thanks all - pretty much what I thought but wanted to check with actual owners in case I was missing something. On the plus side me thinking I was running my car ‘at the limit’ back in the 90s.. turns out I probably was!

juicedcoupe wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 7:17 pm Just because you can put brushless power in them, it doesn't mean that you have to aim for warp speed.

Brushed power could surpass the design limitations, stupid power will only amplify it. Now, modern esc and radio programming could probably be used to tweak all the usefulness from the design.

Good point on that, exp abs etc transform difficult cars.

The major advantage is run time. You got five minutes with a spirited brushed motor back in the day. Now with a mild brushless system and lipo battery, you get the same performance but for 30+ minutes and then the motor is still cool so you can just stick another lipo in and go again! I've got two re released cars. A Hotshot with a 13.5 brushless, and a Scorpion with a 10.5. The Hotshot is way better to drive as it can cope. The Scorpion needs a motor change to maybe a 17.5 as it just pops wheelies and rolls over. So yes, it's easy to go beyond the chassis limits but if you use a lower power motor the run time is a real revolution.

Dadio wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 3:49 am The major advantage is run time. You got five minutes with a spirited brushed motor back in the day. Now with a mild brushless system and lipo battery, you get the same performance but for 30+ minutes and then the motor is still cool so you can just stick another lipo in and go again! I've got two re released cars. A Hotshot with a 13.5 brushless, and a Scorpion with a 10.5. The Hotshot is way better to drive as it can cope. The Scorpion needs a motor change to maybe a 17.5 as it just pops wheelies and rolls over. So yes, it's easy to go beyond the chassis limits but if you use a lower power motor the run time is a real revolution.

Oh yeah, you're right Dadio, I forgot about the Scorpion.
I have the TS re-re and driving it fast on dirt track with a hot brushless setup is the ultimate in frustration - not fun at all.

Understeer was a problem with the Optima. On hard acceleration, it would just push instead of turn. On one of my resto-mod builds, Barney, that issue was helped by swapping the front arms with Maxxum FF front arms, installing rear arms from GPM that were about 5mm longer, and 68mm CVDs instead of the stock 62.5mm bones, and Axial Rockster wheels that have more positive offset. This all made the track width wider and made a noticeable difference with the understeer. It's a lot of mod work though.

The full build here:

https://www.rc10talk.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=21530

Overview:

-Kyosho Turbo Optima w/belt drive conversion
-Aluminum parts polished & anodized
-Bullistorm 60A ESC & Tacon 11T/3200 kV brushless motor
-Axial Rockster wheels with 5mm axle adapter washers
-Proline Caliber 2.2" tires

Mods & hop-ups:

-Titanium HPI & Schumacher turnbuckles, 4.8mm ball studs & ball cups throughout
-Kyosho Maxxum front control arms; GPM C-Carriers for Kyosho Lazer
-Duratrax Maximum steering knuckles #DTXC9953
-Duratrax DTXC8100 chrome outdrives
-GPM Tamiya DF02 rear control arms #2056
-Kyosho Lazer 68mm CVD's
-Rare alloy rear hubs/carriers for Kyosho Optima
-4 Kyosho Gold long shocks (reanodized) with custom carbon shock towers
-HPI purple alloy stabilizer balls #53644 w/4.8mm Delrin ball-ends
-Custom-made Kydex front bumper
-RCScrewz stainless steel screw set
-Custom Lexan undertray & Kydex wheelie pad

Noticing the word Lazer.. do we think there’ll ever be a re-release of the Lazer ZX or is that too much to hope for?

MadZero wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 6:03 pm I was wondering how these reissued buggies perform with today’s electrics? I read Kyosho have tweaked them for BL & LiPo but presumably the geometry is the same so does vast amounts of power release previously unseen potential in these cars or does it just highlight the ageing chassis design & make them fall over a lot.

Greetings! Forget brushless, speed was never the point for vintage buggies for me. If you want old designs that drive better look no further than weight.
If you want to improve the handling dynamics of old reissued buggies inserting one LIGHT lipo battery changes the game more than anything for me.
Getting a vintage buggy that clears jumps (without bottoming out), accelerates, and overall responds better to driver input is amazing.

Very light Lipo + good weight distribution = dynamic and fun old design buggy

MadZero wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:14 pm Noticing the word Lazer.. do we think there’ll ever be a re-release of the Lazer ZX or is that too much to hope for?

Hopefully, but probably not for a while as they are only starting the Optima Mid series

Sprocket wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:25 pm

MadZero wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:14 pm Noticing the word Lazer.. do we think there’ll ever be a re-release of the Lazer ZX or is that too much to hope for?

Hopefully, but probably not for a while as they are only starting the Optima Mid series

My favourite Kyosho buggy I’d have to have another one.