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So I have been eyeing a certain Tamiya re-release since about a year now, while also nervously observing the continued availability of Kyosho reissues (Tomahawk and Javelin mostly...don't need Optima Mids and there isn't a Lazer reissue yet) and their high prices. The Tamiya in question is nothing special, just a particular CC-01-based off-road vehicle. I've since then compiled a list of options I would need to buy to fix all of the known issues with the chassis. For the Kyosho's I also have lists, of desired options that is. The base kits are already quite good after all. But the price...

As I edged towards a decision with regard to buying, yesterday I decided to add up everything I wanted for each kit to see the grand total per car. To my absolute horror the CC-01 (retail price about half that of a Tomahawk) turned out to need approx. 450 Euros worth of options to get it towards "actually a pretty decent runner", which meant it would be only 100 Euros cheaper than a Javelin with the necessary options (universals, some minor reinforcement parts) + bling, and about 200 Euros more expensive than a Tomahawk with the necessary options (universals, optional shock set + shock mounts, some misc parts).

Which brings me to the problem with most vintage Tamiyas and their rereleases (excluding the on-road pan car and F1 chassis): To get a decent car you need to invest in a lot of optional parts, which may be optional in name but are actually necessary because of all of the design issues most models have.
Whereas with Kyosho you pay up front and end up with a kit that is pretty much sure to be a good runner right out of the box...

Obviously I should know this seeing the number of cars I own, but somehow it's less shocking when you buy a Tamiya kit and then spread the purchase of various optional parts over multiple years instead of wanting to buy all options together with the kit.

Now to figure out whether buying all three is really a good idea or not...

The answer is simple and obvious. Buy all three plus the option parts, not one single vintage or Re Re car we own is worth more than sentimental journey it takes us on. All journeys of sentiment are of equal value so you must buy all three plus the optional parts.

I don't built Tamiyas with the intention of correcting them. With a few exceptions, I accept them with their falts.

That's sort of the thing with vintage. With rare exception modern cars will perform better and be less expensive. A re- release is new prices for decades old performance.
Get it run it enjoy it and buy a modern racer for the price of the upgrades it would have needed.

juicedcoupe wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 6:47 pm I don't built Tamiyas with the intention of correcting them. With a few exceptions, I accept them with their falts.

Have you ever thought of taking up a job in counseling?

RC10th wrote: ↑Mon Jul 11, 2022 12:40 am

juicedcoupe wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 6:47 pm I don't built Tamiyas with the intention of correcting them. With a few exceptions, I accept them with their falts.

Have you ever thought of taking up a job in counseling?

Don't you have some Traxxarse vehicles to rebuild?

RC10th wrote: ↑Mon Jul 11, 2022 12:40 am

juicedcoupe wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 6:47 pm I don't built Tamiyas with the intention of correcting them. With a few exceptions, I accept them with their falts.

Have you ever thought of taking up a job in counseling?

Nah, I just know better than chasing lost causes. Regardless of how many upgrades you throw at it, its still a Tamiya (cheap plastic and all). Better to accept it and move on.

If you have been eyeing a particular vehicle for a year, and you haven't been eyeing its closest comparison, doesn't that answer your query? Get the one that interests you the most, and ignore the money side of it. You can buy it stock with just a few "required" upgrades, then pimp it as you go.

Of course, this is coming from a guy who has fallen for the deepest Tamiya money pit ever:

I can relate, but I'm almost sure this applies to any Tamiya, just not only vintage. Their cash machine is the hop ups, and Tamiya fans who push the price envelope on 2-3 times the kit in hop ups... So for what reason would they stop?

Now, my experience from what I built recently (I exclude the true vintage purposely) : there is not a single upgrade needed on Kyosho re-release to have a solid, reliable, fun and good runner. You would add turnbuckles to get them easier to set, but for the rest it is purely cosmetic, and absolutely not needed for running them.

On the other side : if I take any Tamiya (maybe at the exception of the Lunchbox, on which tires are playing a role in reducing the precision impact), there is definitely too much slop (and you can do whatever, part of it remains). On the other side, if you run that car, you would learn at correcting your steering permanently, and any other brand cars will look like perfect after that. In short : it is nice to learn to drive a car, and it is probably made for this

silvertriple wrote: ↑Mon Jul 11, 2022 12:41 pm there is not a single upgrade needed on Kyosho re-release to have a solid, reliable, fun and good runner.

Same for Schumacher. There are upgrades available, but none are needed.

I am not a Tamiya fan-boy or a Tamiya hater, just an outsider looking in, but I honestly thought the oddball designs and flimsy materials were part of the appeal. Paraphrasing from the 1:1 car world- the flaws in a vehicle are what give it its character. So apart from beefing up the reliability, most Tamiya hop ups seem counter-intuitive. Again, that is just an "outsider's" point of view.

I keep thinking about a $280 Super Clodbuster but then I see Steve71 and Hemiclod's awesome builds and I wonder how well a stock Clodbuster can work (with just bearings added). Some of the Tamiya vehicles do have huge aftermarket parts support and the Clod might be the supreme poster child of aftermarket upgrading.

JosephS wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 9:53 pm That's sort of the thing with vintage. With rare exception modern cars will perform better and be less expensive. A re- release is new prices for decades old performance.
Get it run it enjoy it and buy a modern racer for the price of the upgrades it would have needed.

In this case the car isn't even intended to be a racer. The CC-01 is Tamiya's 1990s chassis for their Jeep Cherokee, Pajero, etc. vehicles, and still gets rereleased to this day with new bodies. It's basically a proto-crawler chassis with independent front suspension and live rear axle with highly realistic bodies. It's biggest issue is that the suspension...well...bends so much that it doesn't really work . So it needs about 150 bucks in aftermarket parts to fix the most basic issues in the rear suspension alone. Add another 100 for better wheels and tires (the original tires are very hard), and the remaining money for fixing the other issues + ball bearings. OTOH, it includes a basic ESC.
The car in question is basically the Tamiya I always wanted but never bought, so sentimental value yes.

morrisey0 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:11 am If you have been eyeing a particular vehicle for a year, and you haven't been eyeing its closest comparison, doesn't that answer your query? Get the one that interests you the most, and ignore the money side of it. You can buy it stock with just a few "required" upgrades, then pimp it as you go.

Of course, this is coming from a guy who has fallen for the deepest Tamiya money pit ever:

Ah, Tamiya's semi-trailers . I've considered one, together with one of Carson's aftermarket flatbed trailers (some are very nice), because it would be a great transport for my 1/15 Bandai Tiger I. Must.Resist.Temptation.

Tamiya is primarily a model making company , highly detailed models , many are RC Models and even a nod toward performance but what they do well and probably best is beautiful scale models , I highly doubt that when they made the Cheetah or the Rough Rider family that they had racing in mind , a bit of fun to drive maybe and just beautiful models to see in action .

Dadio wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 7:53 am a bit of fun to drive maybe and just beautiful models to see in action .

I think this is it exactly, but then I remember the Falcon

There is a Tamiya documentary out there somewhere. It focuses entirely on scale models, not RC. Tamiya blew everyone away with the scale stuff right from the beginning. They were doing properly shaped rivets and bolt heads when others weren't even doing panel lines on military planes, for example. I built mostly Monogram and AMT style car kits when I was a kid. I got a Tamiya kit once, and couldn't believe the quality.

Tamiya could probably make a fortune doing hard body kits and accessories for other manufacturers' scale crawlers.

EvolutionRevolution wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:50 am
In this case the car isn't even intended to be a racer. The CC-01 is Tamiya's 1990s chassis for their Jeep Cherokee, Pajero, etc. vehicles, and still gets rereleased to this day with new bodies. It's basically a proto-crawler chassis with independent front suspension and live rear axle with highly realistic bodies. It's biggest issue is that the suspension...well...bends so much that it doesn't really work . So it needs about 150 bucks in aftermarket parts to fix the most basic issues in the rear suspension alone. Add another 100 for better wheels and tires (the original tires are very hard), and the remaining money for fixing the other issues + ball bearings. OTOH, it includes a basic ESC.
The car in question is basically the Tamiya I always wanted but never bought, so sentimental value yes.

Given the price of crawlers you may actually save a few dollars and still have a crawler you want.