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The title pretty much says it all. Why did Kyosho's new Ultima dominate the '87 Worlds? Was Associated too overconfident or taken by surprise? Did the track suit the Ultima's design better? Was it all just down to tires? Any thoughts?

I'm sure the driver had a lot to do with it.

That win was a big surprise to me. Before and after the 1987 world's I still never did see an Ultima at any of my local tracks. Strange how they advertised being "The next world champion", then were.
Rumors that I heard was that they had special tires, do not know if there's any truth to it.

The perfect charge on the batteries.

Maybe it was these
I'm just wondering how I never noticed these before.

I raced at Romsey 6 months after the worlds, the two main issues were grip, there is none unless you had the kyosho blocks W-5031. Not an issue at the worlds all the top drivers had them.

The second issue was the bumps, the track was very rough. To the contrary of what Joel Johnson has said in an interview. The video footage is there to see...
The ultima with respect to going over the bumps was a much more stable platform. The lower front kickup of the ultima being extremely advantageous, and the longer front arms. Almost forgot the inline front axles.
Also the superiority of the kyosho gold shocks.

The RC10 only became competitive again with the release of the wide Andy's arms in 1988. Most of the RC10 in the 87 worlds "A" final had a wide front, just not the right way to do it. only Jay Halsey and Jamie booth had the standard front end. Kevin Moore and Rory Cull ran wide front axles, Eustace moore and Mike Christensen ran SP2 font hubs, Masami ran a wide nose graphite chassis (think hotrick).
All these issues were addressed by Associated with the team car, except for the kickup which remained the same.

Basically Associated had rested on its laurels, an error they learnt from. That being the reason they went all in for the 89 and 91 worlds with their stealth cars. Not forgetting 95 pre-production B2 and 2013 prototype B6 (heavily modified B5M).

As a 15 year old whom had saved for over 6 months by delivering tons of newspapers, I was devastated when I heard that the mythical RC10 had lost the worlds. I can't imagine what the feeling must have been at Associated !

Yes Joel Johnson had to drive the car but it is no coincidence that the kyosho ultima made a clean sweep on the podium placing one, two and three.

I just looked at the results.

Johnson's car was obviously the fastest.

But if you look at the lap times of 2-4, there wasn't much disparity in overall performance potential.

Maybe it was the cars, maybe the drivers, who knows.

Very cool thread! Was mostly into dirt oval and on-road oval/can-am...but did find this regarding 1987:
Per Gene Husting: http://www.dirt-burners.com/rcdox/Race%20Reports%20etc/1987%20IFMAR%20World%20Championships%2C%20Romsey%2C%20England%20%28RCMC%2C%20nov%2087%2C%20US%29.pdf

RCMC: https://www.overrc.com/vintage/documentation/archives-de-mike/1987-10th-Off-Road-WC-UK-MC.pdf

and last but not least...my favorite...1987 Roar Rev-Up race review (mostly because 16yr. old me was listed on pg.20 center column as leading the most exciting race of the day in Region 1) But I'm a bit biased ...damn that Gizzmo and my batteries!!! http://www.dirt-burners.com/rcdox/Magazines/ROAR%20rev-up%20(EN-US)/ROAR%20rev-up%20%28US%29%20-%201987%2811%29%20-%20November.pdf

juicedcoupe wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 11:14 am Maybe it was these

Screenshot_20230721_101037_Drive.jpg

I'm just wondering how I never noticed these before.

I've seen those clutches when I was scouring ebay for Rocky parts. They pop up every now and again, still. Wish I could get another one-way drive, though.

My thought at the time was that in 85, AE truly had the best buggy. In 87 they didn't. Simple as that.

By 89 they were running protoypes and aftermarket parts: very little connection between what was winning at the top level and what was in the box on the shelf at the LHS. So even though AE won all of the big trophies everywhere except Romsey, it wasn't because their kits were always better. They just had a better race team- drivers, engineers, partners, politicians, budget.

To me, it was no different than Renault and Honda winning in Formula 1. It didn't prove that the Honda Civic or Renault LeCar was truly superior to the Ferrari F40, it just meant that Honda and Renault had the technical and financial resources to produce a race engine, that, when paired with a great chassis like a McLaren or a Williams, driven by a Prost or a Senna or a Mansell, could win at the highest level.

This perception, right or wrong, was reinforced at my local track. It seemed the AE stuff (including mine) was always heavily modified. Losi cars and trucks were pretty much box stock and won everything.

All of this is a long way of saying that after 87, the IFMAR Worlds winners should have an asterisk: "YMMV, any similarity to actual vehicle you purchase is entirely coincidental".

Thinking about Kyosho not putting enough R&D after the 87' win, maybe the effort was more towards the 1/8 car....look how many times they won that WC?
But what do I know

notme wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2023 3:44 pm Thinking about Kyosho not putting enough R&D after the 87' win, maybe the effort was more towards the 1/8 car....look how many times they won that WC?
But what do I know

Not only 1/8, but many of their 4WD buggies were impressive.

But yes, Kyosho ruled 1/8 buggy.