just something I wanted to rant about...

[bearrickster]

My track, for the most part is a pretty friendly place. We don't have a hobby shop on site, so people help each other out with parts if somone breaks. If someone has a car that's handling evil, or electrical problems we all pitch in usually. Just about every time I go out to race, which hasn't been much lately , I'm helping someone solder or checking motor temps, just to make sure some guy doesn't blow up a motor by using every bell and whistle a Tekin has . .

I can attest to this when I went to the Vonats I didnt know I was going until the day before. brought 3 boxes of parts and everyone pitched in the day of the race and I put some thing together to race. and they all helped me all day. great place to race and great bunch of guys.

[PBR Allstar]

We have the following in truck and buggy

kids (can run whatever vehicle they have as long as it's 1/10th)
novice
stock (17.5 motor limit)
mod (motor size is constantly changing)

Short course is

novice
spec (stock motor and tires must use nimh batteries)
stock (17.5)
mod
4wd

4wd classes are

mod (motor size changing constantly)
open

I won't even get into how many classes there are on the short course only nights.

this is the ridiculousness I was speaking of! hopefully they get good car counts, if they do then more power to them. If not, then I hope for the sake of their track and the local racers they tighten the reins. I have to admit though, this sounds like a couple of racers are pulling the strings of the promoters???

[vwjuice]

We have the following in truck and buggy

kids (can run whatever vehicle they have as long as it's 1/10th)
novice
stock (17.5 motor limit)
mod (motor size is constantly changing)

Short course is

novice
spec (stock motor and tires must use nimh batteries)
stock (17.5)
mod
4wd

4wd classes are

mod (motor size changing constantly)
open

I won't even get into how many classes there are on the short course only nights.

this is the ridiculousness I was speaking of! hopefully they get good car counts, if they do then more power to them. If not, then I hope for the sake of their track and the local racers they tighten the reins. I have to admit though, this sounds like a couple of racers are pulling the strings of the promoters???

The bad part is that this IS the condensed version. If it were up to the racers we would have probably 3-4 more classes for each buggy,truck, and sct. The track owners have been racing for more than 20 years and one of them works for Kyosho. He's a factory driver and does a lot of R&R for them. I think on average the turn out is 8-10 per class. Some of them go up to 15-16 per class. They will try to make a class if there's at least 6 cars, BUT it must be something different I.E. vintage or minis or monster trucks. They won't just make another 13.5 class. Too many tracks have tried that and closed. We usually race for about 3 hours per race night. They have done an awesome job having enough classes and still keeping it fun. BUT yeah this many classes gets to be way to much sometimes.

[Russ Winn]

Back when I raced, we had a Sportsman class (frogs, hornets, fox), Trucks (Blackfoot, Lunch Box with 6cell), Stock (RC10, JRX2, Ultima with 6cell and ROAR stock motor), 2WD and 4WD Mod (7cell open). Our track started an "outlaw oval" night for the more experienced guys. There were only 6cell and 7cell classes for any car/motor. We had a lot of fun in those days, but I think technology has led to the current demise of the sport. With the introduction of "specialized" cars, brushless motors and Lipo batteries, money has become an issue for potential racers (myself included). I believe some tracks try to appease everyone's budget with classes divided by motors and/or batteries, which leads to smaller, but more numerous racing classes. Times were much simpler when we only had Nicd batteries and brushed motors.

Personally, I'm done with racing, but I still enjoy wrenching, restoring and customizing. I'd be happy to have get-togethers to show off our rides and relive the old days, much like classic car shows.

[PBR Allstar]

Times were much simpler when we only had Nicd batteries and brushed motors.

I don't know about that, I'm so glad to be done with cells and brushes for the most part. towards the end, when I was running offroad 19t I kept about 10 motors in rotation, keeping the small comms for the mains or if I had an Important qualifier. Beyond that I would buy a new pack every other race day just about. I would cycle a new pack twice, run it for a 4 minute practice, then it would be an A main pack for two weeks, then it would be a 2nd heat pack for two weeks, then a 1st heat pack for two weeks, then a practice pack if it made it that long. It's what you had to do at some of the tracks to be competitive, Lipo and brushless saved the hobby in a lot of ways I think.

Now, I haven't untaped the battery out of my car all season, and I've pulled the motor once to change bearings. Off the track, onto the charger.

With all that said, I stayed away from Lipo Brushless for a long time, then I went lipo but stayed with the brushes, then I went brushless at tracks that enforced weight, and brushed at tracks that didn't. Finally when the programable esc's (these I don't feel are good for the hobby as it's another big tuning obstacle for drivers and can be hard on equipment if you don't get it just right) came out there was not chance you were gonna be close to competitive with brushed stuff.

[Russ Winn]

PBR,
I understand your point about remaining competitive, as I don't know what the competition was like in your part of the country. Most of us rotated batteries much in the same way you were talking about, but they lasted all season. This was back in the mid to late 80's, and the local track drew about 40-50 entries on a weekly basis. We raced for plastic trophies and T-shirts. Rarely, did anyone I know race on a regional or national level, and the competition was more like a social gathering.

Since you've brought it up, how is the longevity/performance factor with Lipo batteries vs. NiMh? I'm wondering if the cost is worth it for just cruising around.

[PBR Allstar]

Russ,
For bashing and cruising, I don't think there is any way a Nimh pack can compare to a lipo. especially with the advances in lipo performance in the last couple years.

Lipos have capacity ratings in the same way Nimh and Nicad cells do in mah, but then also rate the available discharcharge rating which is called the "C" rating competitive racing requires a high "C" rating like 40C up to 65C this nuber refers to the available discharge amps i.e. a 65C pack will withstand a 65 amp sustained discharge with burst discharge up to 100 amps often times, numbers never even dreamed of with Nimh packs.

With that said though, for bashing in the yard with 15-27T brushed motors I wouldn't worrry about the C rating, you can get very good lipo packs that have a 25C rating that will outperform your Nihm packs both in speed, run time, and overall pack life. A lipo pack can be cycled as many times a day as you like unlike Nimh packs that need rest to be at top performance. The power delivery is not nearly as digressive as a Nimh pack, meaning 5 minutes into a lipo run you're probably gonig to be still very near peak pack voltage, whereas a Nimh pack will have dropped in the mid 80% range. And for whatever reason, run times with lipos are always longer than with and equal mah Nimh pack, I think this has to do with the way they discharge, and how as Nimh packs get warm the internal resistance goes up and you start losing lots in heat energy. As far as the lifetime of a cared for lipo, it's usually hundreds of charge cycles before any cell degradation starts.

I'm not sure if you know the basics of lipo or not and how the cells work, but all the 1/10 scale lipos are 2 cell, and lipo cells put off 3.7v per cell making a pack that is 7.4 volts. I know lipo tech was confusing for me when I started, as it is for others, all the talk of balancing and fires makes it down right intimidating compared to putting a discharged pack on my peak charger.
Like any pack, the lipo cells need to be equal or close to equal in voltage hence the balancing. Balancing is achieved two different ways usually, a "Balance charger" or an "External Balancer" I use an external balancer by Common Sense RC, it balances the pack by discharging the overcharged cell at .1 amp until the cells are equal and it has an LED read out that tells you the cell voltage and will work with any Lipo compatible charger.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Common-Sense-RC-Balance-Pro-Lipo-Cell-Balancer-Tester-/290481266357?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43a2085eb5

The other option is to use a "Balance Charger" (I plan on switching to this style charger for next season) and really this is probably the best option. what a balance charger does is charge the cells individually bringing them both to and equal peak voltage. The most popular in the pits is usually the Hyperion Series chargers. It's a little expensive on the front end, but it will be the last charger you ever buy.

http://cgi.ebay.com/HYPERION-EOS0606I-AC-DC-BALANCE-CHARGER-6S-6A-50W-/120634768381?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c16647bfd

Running a lipo in your car is pretty much the same as running a conventional Nimh pack with the one difference being that lipo packs don't like to be over discharged, sometimes if you over discharge a pack they can be damaged. A lot of speed controls now have a lipo cut off, or you can use a cut off device like a novak smart stop:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Novak-Smart-Stop-2-Cell-LiPo-Cut-Off-Module-NIB-/390255062016?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5add03ac00

Personally, I just keep tabs on the time I've been running and check the pack voltage now and again, the bottom line is the packs don't want to go below 6.0v or 3.0v per cell. Most chargers now will tell you the pack voltage, as well as how many mah youve used, so you can gauge how much time you can put on your packs, Think of it the same way as watching how much fuel you've used in your car buy watching the trip meter and then calculating the mileage buy how much fuel you put back in at the pump.

Lots of people do the "oh fire" dance when talking about lipos, the only lipos I've seen catch fire (one since they've been at the track) or heard about catching fire, have been abused, damaged, mis handled, mis cared for, etc. Granted, like any battery you want to take precautions, don't charge them unattended, store them properly, charge them properly, if one gets damaged be extra careful when you attempt to charge it, etc. Just use common sense.

There's lots of info out there about them if you choose to go that route, like I said, outside of the initial investment expect about $180 for a very good charger like the Hyperion and a high quality 6000mah pack like the SMC MAX (a 6000mah lipo will give you more run time than you ever imagined, when I bash with my son these are the packs we use, and we often get bored before they need to go on the charger):

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-SMC-LIPO-BATTERY-6000mAh-2S-7-4V-28C-6028LD-/220705468712?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3363123128

If you follow the directions it's all very easy and you get the hang of it really quick, the technology is just new so it's a little different, that's all. Hope that helps.

[Russ Winn]

Thanks for the great info...lots of good stuff there. I was wondering if it would be worth it for me to change over, since I'm not into racing anymore.

[tamiyadan]

.

[Brandon G]

Since you've brought it up, how is the longevity/performance factor with Lipo batteries vs. NiMh? I'm wondering if the cost is worth it for just cruising around.

Just throwing this in....

I bought a Novak GTB and a 10.5 motor combo shortly after it came out. (about 2-2.5 years ago) Bought an Orion 3200 lipo at the same time. Installed these in my Factory Tam RC10B4. Well, the SAME esc and motor still resides in the buggy after countless racing nights. Just keep everything clean and drop some oil on the motor bearings every so often. I do not run the 3200 pack on the track configuration we have currently, but it too could be ready to race with a charge in it. In fact, I used it in my 2010 Vonats Kingcab in CT the whole weekend with zero issues.

Sooooo much better than sub c's and brushes. Doesn't matter if you are racing or bashing. Who wouldn't want 100-200% longer runtime when playing around the yard?

[markt311]

My b4 runs for 20+ minutes with a 5000 40c 2 year old lipo on a 10.5 with an old Novak GTB. The motor never gets over 110 degrees and it's waaaaaaaaaayyyyyy too fast. Who couldn't love that?

I hate cutting motors and relacing/ breaking in brushes. Add in NiCD/NIMH... the ever failing battery pack. I'm fine where technology has taken us.

[mikea96]

My sons brushless T4 runs 45 minutes with a 5000 40c 2s venom pack and he starts to get bored after about 30 minutes.

[AscotConversion]

I don't know if you need 10+ classes, but you do need appropriate classes. Everybody says all you need are stock and mod, but mod is pretty darn fast these days. 17.5 open is actually pretty darn fast too. What most people actually want is to have fun driving their car, not hanging on for dear life. I think that this is misinterpreted as wanting to "win" or "get a trophy". The other side of that is the guys who are stock-for-life full ride drivers. That was almost non-existent in the days of "stock and mod", but now they show up to race THE SLOW CLASS with all the free stuff they get. It discourages people, and they want to race away from those guys.

I know, everyone should stop whining and race in the J main or whatever. That's just not a line of thought that brings in the new racers. People are different now, or at least their attitudes are. But what does it matter to you if you beat 10 guys or 100 beyond an ego trip?

I think you need at least one really slow class, that the hot shoes don't want to run. Let the new guys, slow guys, old guys, whoever run there so they can figure it out. Even if you dial in someone's car, that's no guarantee they won't pile it into a wall immediately.

[longboardnj]

i just wanted to add that too many classes is why i got out of racing.. i like racing but come on, who wants to spend like 12 hours to race 3 heats and a main..

[seth556]

It seems like the guy who recently opened the new indoor track around here is fed up with this as well. He seems to have narrowed it down pretty well.

There's the car classes that are divided into open and stock (17.5 no boost):
1/10 buggy
stadium truck
4x2 stadium truck

Then the following in just open classes:
4x4 stadium truck
1/8 buggy
1/8 truggy