Jamie Booth Manta Ray build from the start. Cancelled.

[Charlie don't surf]

I don't understand why anyone would be upset at someone who's protecting their intellectual property.

I agree with that statement with the exception
of Tamiya who have copied countless things because they were big enough to do so- what's good for the goose and such

[tamiyadan]

.

[Lowgear]

I don't understand why anyone would be upset at someone who's protecting their intellectual property. The funny thing about this is now the reproduction guys are having their "work" reproduced and now they are getting bent. What goes around comes around.

Instead of giving up, why not do it right and get some real vintage decals or whatever you need? I guess you weren't into the project that much from the start eh?

I know, a vintage car with vintage parts, doesn't seem right, I'm the crazy one.

The first part I agree with to a point but the second part I need to add some constructive criticism to if I may.

The older our already vintage R/C's become, the less of an opportunity they'll be to use all original parts in their restorations. Will that make them any less "true?" That depends on a number of factors like if you used almost all reproduction parts as then it would be considered more of a replica. Unfortunately theres not an infinite supply of original decal sheets, tires, bodies, etc... out there, and what is left isn't impervious to time. So you feel that if you cannot use all original parts on a restoration then you shouldn't do it at all? If so, that would mean when a certain part of a vintage R/C has been depleted like a-arms for example, the model could no longer conceivably be restored. That is unless you don't mind having a major component missing.

To make a long story short If you couldn't use reproduction parts on vintage R/C's they would eventually become extinct as there would be no original parts left to rebuild them. The same thing goes with 1:1 car restorations. There would be no such thing as antique, classic, etc... cars anymore. But maybe what you're trying to say is that you shouldn't use reproduction parts while you can still get originals? A separate argument can be made there as well though.


But the moral dilemma of using reproduction parts is here nor there. Eventually theres going to be a need for a reproduction market if theres any hope of keeping the vintage side of the hobby alive. The problem is people are going about it the wrong way. If they are not authorized to reproduce the products by the original manufacturer it can be argued that illegal copies are being made. If some sort of licensing agreement could be worked out that would help if not solve the problem.

[Synergy]

Well you would not have been effected by tamiya's crackdown.

This one may not be but others are.

The top force body reproduction is still out

This particular Manta Ray runs a Madcap body.

I don't understand why anyone would be upset at someone who's protecting their intellectual property.

There are ways that Tamiya can support the market and meet the demand whilst still protecting their interests and if they do I’ll be happy to resurrect this and other Tamiya project.

Instead of giving up, why not do it right and get some real vintage decals or whatever you need? I guess you weren't into the project that much from the start eh?

No I wasn’t into it that much otherwise I would have completed it before now. I could easily complete this car without a single repro part but that’s not the point and it’s not “giving up” it's taking a stance.

I know, a vintage car with vintage parts, doesn't seem right, I'm the crazy one.

As Lowgear puts it so well, there's not enough vintage pats to go around, if it wasn't for the likes of MrLexan do you really think we’d see as many 870Cs to name but one?

[Asso_man!]

Top force body sets are now over 350$, decal sets are starting over 60$.

At what point can a kid today get into this hobby.

Unfortunately the demand for these parts is at it's height.

This must be the bonanza of the century then... http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-TAMIYA-1-10-Top-force-new-built-rare-evolution-/260805946522?pt=Radio_Control_Vehicles&hash=item3cb93eec9a

I already had a really low esteem for Tamiya PLASTIC products and customer service in general, but this is totally beyond my understanding. Well done Mark!

[MelvinsArmy]

I don't understand why anyone would be upset at someone who's protecting their intellectual property.

I agree with that statement with the exception
of Tamiya who have copied countless things because they were big enough to do so- what's good for the goose and such

I think you'd have a hard time finding an original idea on most new r/c cars. At this point most things have been done and copied.

Lowgear, there are very few pieces that are impossible to find in our little hobby. If someone wants something bad enough, they can find it. I know it's a lot easier just to make your own, but there aren't a lot of truly rare items in this hobby. These are mass produced goods, especially nearly everything that Tamiya made.

Synergy, I'm not sure what kind of stance you're taking against Tamiya. They don't care if you restore their cars or not. They do care if a third party makes a profit off of their design. I don't understand how a restoration could turn political. If you got a ticket for buying a bootleg DVD on the street, would you stop seeing movies all together?

Having said all this, I think it would be great if Tamiya started remaking decals and bodies and whatever parts people wanted. But If they don't and they don't want anybody else doing it, that's fine too. There's not enough Picasso paintings to go around either, somehow I'll have to figure out a way to go without until I can save up the moola. I'm sure not about to make a copy of one just because I can.

[Lowgear]

I don't mean now so much as in the future. The point I was trying to make is that eventually parts will need to be reproduced as originals aren't going to be around forever. Bodies, decals, and tires are the first things that come to mind.

[Synergy]

Synergy, I'm not sure what kind of stance you're taking against Tamiya. They don't care if you restore their cars or not.

And there lies the entire problem, they just don’t care about the vintage restorers, however they do care when I don’t buy the 8 new kits in the next 12 months as I did in the last. If you want to come back with the old “cutting your nose off” that’s fine sometimes a belief is worth a little sacrifice.

They do care if a third party makes a profit off of their design. I don't understand how a restoration could turn political. If you got a ticket for buying a bootleg DVD on the street, would you stop seeing movies all together?

No and that’s why I’ll continue with Yokomo, Associated and others, but I’ll promote as little as possible the Tamiya brand until they find a very easy solution to the need of this particular market that they care so little about.

Having said all this, I think it would be great if Tamiya started remaking decals and bodies and whatever parts people wanted.

I couldn’t agree more.

But If they don't and they don't want anybody else doing it, that's fine too.

I couldn’t agree less.

There's not enough Picasso paintings to go around either, somehow I'll have to figure out a way to go without until I can save up the moola. I'm sure not about to make a copy of one just because I can.

You don’t need to, you can buy a print.

I’ll promote as little as possible the Tamiya brand until they find a very easy solution to the need of this particular market that they care so little about.

With this in mind I hope this to be my last post in this section of the forum whilst the issue for me remains unresolved.


Melvin I fully understand your perspective however I don't agree with it, I also don't believe for one moment that you don't understand mine.


RC isn't the most important thing in my life, it's not even in my top 10, if I can complete a restoration with good quality reproduction parts/decals for £40 I'll spend the £60 I save on some cool stuff for my Daughter.


On that note I’m done.

[MelvinsArmy]

Oh I understand your perspective. However, believing that a print is a substitute for a painting is absurd, if you know what I mean.

[Asso_man!]

Oh I understand your perspective. However, believing that a print is a substitute for a painting is absurd, if you know what I mean.

Here is a quote and quick "google" translation of an article in French about the famous Belgian painter Magritte (speaking about reproductions of works of art):

Magritte defends the thesis that "a work of art should be an autonomous work that can be reproduced in millions of copies, thanks to advances in photo-color [5]." The design of the artwork is clearly magrittéenne allographic design. He himself says that he is happy with reproductions of works of art: "A reproduction is enough for me! It's like literature, there is no need to see the manuscript of a writer to be interested in his book [6] "

[MelvinsArmy]

I love Magritte, he's one of my favorite painters. However 99.9% of the art-loving world has a very different opinion than that. The actual percentage is likely higher. Looking at a painting and looking at a copy of the same painting printed on paper are two completely different things. Anyone who's stood in front of a painting after studying it on paper knows this. Night and day.

[cyberded]

he guy.i think that all of your point of view are good...the way i see it is as follow:i would rather have a monster beetle with a rere scorcher body painted red and repro sticker
insted of nothing.it maybe not true to art as some purist would think or say but each time i look at it it remembers me of all those pack i went trought with the one i had
when i was a youg boy.i think repro anything is making available to the average joe to have vintage R/C.if it wasnt for repro i woudlnt have that great JRX2 on my shelf
(thanks mr lexan ).one thing i find funny thought,Tamiya rere themself a few time...killing the market of the sand scorcher was one of the worst i think.now im thinking
that no one should be affraid of tamiya or any R/C company for that mather as they have been copying themself for year...has anyone look at 1/8 scale buggy for the
last 10 years if not more....can you spell cookie cutter.


thanks you...that felt good

[templeofspeed]

Wow, what did I miss here? Tamiya pulling a Volkswagenesque trademark crackdown?

[bearrickster]

Wow, what did I miss here? Tamiya pulling a Volkswagenesque trademark crackdown?

Pretty much