Optima Mid Runner Budget Build to LWB conversion

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Re: Optima Mid Runner Budget Build to LWB conversion

Post by silvertriple »

Hi Doug,

I'm really impressed by your work! Replacing parts by printed part designed to work better is definitely a way to go. On my Marui Hunter, I choose to add up reinforcement rather than replace things, but keeping the chassis the way it is while the weakness point are mainly the chassis is making me doing so... Impressive result in any case you have here...
XLR8 wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:50 pm Actually, I’ve simply painted the parts flat black. Without fully understanding the thermal properties for the printing material, I didn’t want to risk overheating the parts in dye only to watch them dissolve. The material is already black and fully opaque below the surface similar to the OE molded nylon parts so maybe they would only need a few minutes in dye to color the surfaces – I don’t know. Anyway, painting the parts seemed like the safest path. By the way, the slight grainy surface texture reminds me of sand castings.
As for dying polyamide parts, I dyed some Tamiya rims in the past for my kids cars, and I'm not alone. There is lot of people doing this, without much issues in durability. And for Printed part, I don't think it would be different. As matter of fact, heating parts after they are 3D Printed using FDM process is one of the possibilities to reinforce them. It should not be different for MJF process, actually... And while you are talking about i.materialize.com, they actually propose the parts either grey either black (using dye post process). Another interesting thing about shapeways, I looked at they materials for MJF (as I'm considering doing some polyamide parts using the designs I did to get some solid parts for my own use), and it looks like what they call natural plastic when doing MJF is actually PA12. I also search for other providers, and the difference is often on the minimal amount you have to do for an order. And that is really where one is more easy to do than others...
I buy kits to build and ru(i)n them :-)

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Re: Optima Mid Runner Budget Build to LWB conversion

Post by JPaul »

Hi Doug,

After being away from the hobby and my Optima Mid SE for 20+ years I was disappointed to find a lack of parts availability, and the crazy cost when you find them.
I guess I should have expected it. Anyway, now I've got a car I'm terrified to run. Its very refreshing to find people with the talent, know how, and desire to prolong the lives
of these older, and in my opinion, totally awesome cars. Your parts packages are exactly what I need to get a mid runner going from the spare parts I have left from "hopping up"
my Mid SE. Are they available? If not, can they be? With them I could build the runner, have my kids run ("bash") it, and report back.

btw, what center gear is it that you are running? Looks like an alloy one to me.

Thanks Justin

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Re: Optima Mid Runner Budget Build to LWB conversion

Post by XLR8 »

JPaul wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:05 pm Hi Doug,

After being away from the hobby and my Optima Mid SE for 20+ years I was disappointed to find a lack of parts availability, and the crazy cost when you find them.
I guess I should have expected it. Anyway, now I've got a car I'm terrified to run. Its very refreshing to find people with the talent, know how, and desire to prolong the lives
of these older, and in my opinion, totally awesome cars. Your parts packages are exactly what I need to get a mid runner going from the spare parts I have left from "hopping up"
my Mid SE. Are they available? If not, can they be? With them I could build the runner, have my kids run ("bash") it, and report back.

btw, what center gear is it that you are running? Looks like an alloy one to me.

Thanks Justin
Thank you, Justin, for taking time to comment. …oh, and welcome back to the hobby. :D

Making parts for RC’s is something I’ve enjoyed doing for a very long time. Going back to my first surface vehicle, a Tamiya Sand Scorcher that I bought after seeing it introduced in a Tower Hobbies catalog sometime in 1979, I can’t resist rethinking (or overthinking?) the mechanical aspects of these things as they go together. If the results are an improvement over original parts, well I reckon that is open for debate. Either way, I like designing and making parts. The Sand Scorcher eventually became an unsuccessful oval racer with a Dodge Daytona body before discovering the RC10 in the ‘80’s and experiencing what it’s like to drive a great handling RC car. I've been an AE fan since that time.

Anyway, the motivation here was to source the plastic parts needed to complete a chassis set that remained from a previous project.

The center gear I’m using is actually steel but I have the aftermarket aluminum gear and it will also fit the printed cases. Metal center gears measure slightly larger than Kyosho’s original injection molded gear so I’ve moved the shaft location slightly to better accommodate the larger gears. This is not to suggest that metal center gears wouldn’t fit if the shaft had remained in its original location (metal gears obviously work fine in Kyosho cases) but I just wanted to eliminate any trace of drag or binding when installed in the printed cases so I’ve slightly altered the location. The plastic gear still fits the printed cases but it will have a bit more clearance than with Kyosho cases. The plastic center gear seems to be the weak link with these cars so I wouldn’t recommend running that gear with a high power motor.

By chance have you seen this:


https://www.rc10talk.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=42231

His configuration uses 48dp metal gears throughout the transmission. There are videos of him track-testing his car and it seems very bulletproof.

I haven’t given it much thought but if you would prefer to continue using the original .8 mod gears and standard wheelbase, I believe it’s possible to make my parts available for others to order through iMaterialize if someone could please provide some instructions – is it easily done?
Doug

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Re: Optima Mid Runner Budget Build to LWB conversion

Post by JPaul »

It wasn't until the early 80's for me. I saw a kid out on the street driving a Tamiya Grasshopper and I was hooked. Saved money, spent money. Got car, sold car. First, Tamiya Hornet, then Kyosho Rocky, AKA car I can't recall name of, Kyosho Raider, then the keepers (thank goodness). My beloved Turbo Optima Mid SE and eventually a RC10 Team Car. I just saw a post about GPD (Gold Pan Disease). Even though my Team Car is black pan I think I got GPD, and maybe a little Optima virus too! I'm not a racer, or an extreme builder, but there is just something about these cars that draw me in.

Digressing... I did see that 48P thread. Its great, and also great work by Alcyon. The problem is it will take too much to get there with the LWB, and of course being that it is older, some of the parts are no longer available. :?

Thanks for the info on the center gear. I have a spare plastic one, but that becomes a one and done. I saw some Al ones on ebay that I will try, unless you know where to get the steel ones?

After starring more at your handy work I noticed the slipper you are running is also a little different. Can you give any pointers on that? I was thinking that there maybe someway to get a AE V2 Slipper mounted.

Finally, I personally haven't done any work with Shapeways or i.materialize. However, there are quite a few posts (especially in the Vintage RC10 buggy section) with guys(maybe also gals) that have shops setup. Hopefully one of them is reading this and can help out. Your work definitely warrants a shop in both places. To use my favorite over used quote. "if you build it, they will come". I'll be the first customer for the Optima parts, and I'm sure not the last.

Thanks again

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Re: Optima Mid Runner Budget Build to LWB conversion

Post by XLR8 »

JPaul wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:59 am It wasn't until the early 80's for me. I saw a kid out on the street driving a Tamiya Grasshopper and I was hooked. Saved money, spent money. Got car, sold car. First, Tamiya Hornet, then Kyosho Rocky, AKA car I can't recall name of, Kyosho Raider, then the keepers (thank goodness). My beloved Turbo Optima Mid SE and eventually a RC10 Team Car. I just saw a post about GPD (Gold Pan Disease). Even though my Team Car is black pan I think I got GPD, and maybe a little Optima virus too! I'm not a racer, or an extreme builder, but there is just something about these cars that draw me in.

Digressing... I did see that 48P thread. Its great, and also great work by Alcyon. The problem is it will take too much to get there with the LWB, and of course being that it is older, some of the parts are no longer available. :?

Thanks for the info on the center gear. I have a spare plastic one, but that becomes a one and done. I saw some Al ones on ebay that I will try, unless you know where to get the steel ones?

After starring more at your handy work I noticed the slipper you are running is also a little different. Can you give any pointers on that? I was thinking that there maybe someway to get a AE V2 Slipper mounted.

Finally, I personally haven't done any work with Shapeways or i.materialize. However, there are quite a few posts (especially in the Vintage RC10 buggy section) with guys(maybe also gals) that have shops setup. Hopefully one of them is reading this and can help out. Your work definitely warrants a shop in both places. To use my favorite over used quote. "if you build it, they will come". I'll be the first customer for the Optima parts, and I'm sure not the last.

Thanks again
That’s an interesting bit of history, thanks for sharing. I’d reckon your path in the RC hobby was very similar to most of us. Nearly everyone seems to have owned a Hornet or Frog at some point.

“GPD” – that’s very funny, I’ve not seen that one before. I prefer to think of our appreciation for the gold pan RC10 as a passion rather than a disease but I can understand why some folks outside the hobby might label what we have an illness. They really don’t know what they’re missing.

I jumped from the Sand Scorcher to the RC10, then a Schumacher CAT (SWB), then CAT XLS, then an Ultima (which I absolutely loved). For dirt oval racing, I had a couple RC10 based sprint cars and a Dominator that was purchased from Jim Dieter. For on-road, there was the RC10L and a linked pan car of my own design that I called an Apex. And this was prior to 1990. Except for the original Ultima, I still have those cars.

"After starring more at your handy work I noticed the slipper you are running is also a little different. Can you give any pointers on that? I was thinking that there maybe someway to get a AE V2 Slipper mounted. "

The spur is indeed an AE v2 slipper gear (81t I think – it’s the largest gear that will fit the cover). The slipper pads are replaced with aluminum plates. A small brass tube fills the gap in the center hole. I have a small box of assorted brass tubes of various diameters and lengths that I’ve kept since my slot car days in the 1960’s. Anyway, I was able to find a tube that fits the hole and the shaft perfectly – just needed to cut it to length.
Doug

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Re: Optima Mid Runner Budget Build to LWB conversion

Post by optimaforever »

Hello all. This is a very interesting thread. I love all the optima series as my username can suggest ;D
I don't have any printed parts on my Optimae but I guess this is a matter of time.
iMaterialise is cheaper than SW for sure but there are plenty of providers even cheaper yet correct quality. It all depends on how you manage the STL file and the amount of parts you print. (and the material of course).
In my experience, Weerg in Italy seems to be the cheapest but they don't provide a webshop service as SW and IM. If you only plan to print parts for yourself, I suggest Weerg as they have an HP MJF printer pool.
However they don't accept sprue type file (that is, parts linked by tubes to form a single solid part that you need to detach yourself). You need to make a cage around your parts, or print each piece as discrete parts.
iMaterialise is very serviceable and not too expensive and they offer a webshop if you want to sell your creations.

OT-93 was the first part I thought of if I had to print Optima parts. Several years ago, a Spanish friend made a mould and sold a few pieces as everyone know that OT-93 are quite rare as NIP parts. He was worried about the fact of keeping the Kyosho logo or not. :D
Personally I would find comical to print some OT-93 with Tamiya logo instead :D
OT-85 would come second.
The steering assembly too could be interesting.

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Re: Optima Mid Runner Budget Build to LWB conversion

Post by Sprocket »

optimaforever wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:23 pm Hello all. This is a very interesting thread. I love all the optima series as my username can suggest ;D
I don't have any printed parts on my Optimae but I guess this is a matter of time.
iMaterialise is cheaper than SW for sure but there are plenty of providers even cheaper yet correct quality. It all depends on how you manage the STL file and the amount of parts you print. (and the material of course).
In my experience, Weerg in Italy seems to be the cheapest but they don't provide a webshop service as SW and IM. If you only plan to print parts for yourself, I suggest Weerg as they have an HP MJF printer pool.
However they don't accept sprue type file (that is, parts linked by tubes to form a single solid part that you need to detach yourself). You need to make a cage around your parts, or print each piece as discrete parts.
iMaterialise is very serviceable and not too expensive and they offer a webshop if you want to sell your creations.

OT-93 was the first part I thought of if I had to print Optima parts. Several years ago, a Spanish friend made a mould and sold a few pieces as everyone know that OT-93 are quite rare as NIP parts. He was worried about the fact of keeping the Kyosho logo or not. :D
Personally I would find comical to print some OT-93 with Tamiya logo instead :D
OT-85 would come second.
The steering assembly too could be interesting.

Good to know as I am looking to rebuild some older Optimas.

Your websites are awesome BTW. I’m planing on redoing my OMCS in the Marlboro livery

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Re: Optima Mid Runner Budget Build to LWB conversion

Post by USAPaulo »

It'll be interesting to see if recent news of a re-re Optima Mid gets this thread buzzing again...especially if it's a SWB Mid they release and people start looking for ways to increase the wheelbase!

There's so much Mid chatter on forums, Facebook, YouTube, etc I think the whole Kyosho forum is going to explode in the spring if we see the re-re! It's great to see this Kyosho renaissance and everyone appreciating how well designed the kits are :D

Paul

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Re: Optima Mid Runner Budget Build to LWB conversion

Post by XLR8 »

Well, I certainly hope what you are saying comes to pass. If it looks as good as their other re-re's, I'm in for two of them.
So far, there's no mention of this on either Kyosho company sites.
Just this kinda goofy guy posted something on his youtube channel - not sure if what he says can be trusted.


Anyway, fingers crossed.
Kyosho would be foolish not to re-release the Mid.
Doug

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Re: Optima Mid Runner Budget Build to LWB conversion

Post by BattleTrak »

It looks legitimate this time.. These guys are taking pre-orders.

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/kyosho-optima-mid-2022-1342006
-Brad

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Re: Optima Mid Runner Budget Build to LWB conversion

Post by USAPaulo »

BattleTrak wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:47 am It looks legitimate this time.. These guys are taking pre-orders.

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/kyosho-optima-mid-2022-1342006
Yup, there's a number of shops in the UK taking orders but it's been quiet in the US so far. As far as I can tell it all started from a post on one of the Tamiya Instagram pages (someone said Tamiya and Kyosho have the same distribution network?) but I note that the picture they used was a recent one of a vintage OM that someone had just refurbished and put on one of the forums! When questioned on a Facebook group one of the shops that is taking orders says they've had their pre-order for kits accepted by the official distributor.

Fingers crossed it happens...and even better, that it's the start of a number of Mid re-res...TOMS anyone....?! ;-)

Paul

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Re: Optima Mid Runner Budget Build to LWB conversion

Post by XLR8 »

It all seems very sketchy to me.
I'll believe it when Kyosho makes a formal announcement.
I hope that happens soon.
Doug

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Re: Optima Mid Runner Budget Build to LWB conversion

Post by silvertriple »

XLR8 wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:22 pm It all seems very sketchy to me.
I'll believe it when Kyosho makes a formal announcement.
I hope that happens soon.
Same, although I saw one guy who for sure knows about it liking the "information" on one of the Facebook groups I'm in (although he may have liked because of the picture of the Vintage Optima Mid box :-D).
I want to believe, but I'll trust this only when I'll see the Kyosho official announcement...
I buy kits to build and ru(i)n them :-)

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Re: Optima Mid Runner Budget Build to LWB conversion

Post by XLR8 »

Well, my activity here and on other RC message boards, viewing and commenting on youtube is as close as I get to "social media".
I don't have a clue what instagram is and have no desire to learn about it and I avoid FakeBook like the plague. :evil: :lol:
Doug

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Re: Optima Mid Runner Budget Build to LWB conversion

Post by silvertriple »

Kit number and other information
https://www.hobbyshop.ch/kyosho-optima-mid-1-10-4wd-kit-k.30622.html

But not sure there was any words from Kyosho yet...
I buy kits to build and ru(i)n them :-)

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