jrx2 versus RC10

[scr8p]

Well, when I am, I am man enough to admit it. I am wrong.

don't give in that quick. we're supposed to go back and forth until we're blue in the face about who's right and who's wrong for like 3-4 pages before you ultimately say i'm right.

[THEYTOOKMYTHUMB]

and there DEFinately wouldn't be a jrx2 if it wasn't for the rc10. i seem to remember quite few pictures of their prototypes riddled with associated parts. i guess i'll have to find all of them to refresh everyones memory.

for the record, i do like the old losi cars. i had a junior-t that i raced before i ever had an rc10. it's just that it's so much fun stirring the pot.

Once again I am humbled by the vast amounts of knowledge owned by some of the members of this forum. In fact, we need a new "I'M NOT WORTHY!" Smiley because I just reached for it and it wasn't there...Anyway, I want to see pics of the Losi/Asso lovechild! That would be awesome. I know I watched Arachnophobia on HBO while I built my one and only Losi. Would that have been a JRX2 or JRXPRO?? I can't remember...

[Soncho Ponza]

I think wee need a smile face with a bigger head cuz theres some guys that could use it on their posts NO i say Kyoshos rocks. Id like to see some of those mip gear boxes that the team drivers had hidden in the old 6 gear cases. Those losi rear links looked cool but they ditched em for a good reason..

[JPAE07]

I remember the jrx2 coming out and having the same impression of "wow all the aftermarket parts in one kit". At that time I had already spent the time to build a graphite 10 with a MIP gearbox. The frenzy eventually hit me and I got sucked in with a jrxt. After building the jrxt I drove it a couple times until I noticed the shock oil leaked out. I rebuilt them several times with the same effect. I eventually wanted to replace them but didn't have the funds and got side-tracked with a Bolink Eliminator 10.

My overall experience was that I liked the jrx concept theory (including all the hot parts) but in practice I felt the kit lacked quality in one of its primary components.... the shocks.

Does anyone else remember this flaw?

[peuge73]

At that time, in france, these cars were really rare to see racing.
I started in 1989, and my friends had kyosho cars, with very good shocks, or schumacher, with top tranny (belt) and axles.
I bought first a schumacher top cat, and I was seriously desapointed with the behaviour of the car in difficult conditions (deep holes and jumps), and also with reliability, but parts were easy to find.
After, I had a RC10 graphite, that I found medium for all technical items, but no handicap. Very reliable also. RC10 started to be kind of fluent, but Losi was still rare. The ones I raced against were very efficient, but what a shame to find extra parts at that time!

For me these cars were both at the top...

[Jirka]

Situation was similar also in Finland that it was in France and probably all over in Europe.

Asso RC10 suffered from too short suspension arms and it was way too heavy. There was a lot of similar RC10 here in Finland that there are in "The official "lightweight" chassis thread." Also 6-gear gearbox was somehow problematic and not effective enough. This was probably because our tracks were really bumby high bite soft sand tracks. Also the play with different shock length and rear shock limiters and rear drive shafts was frustrating.
The cars that Asso did use in 89 and 91 worlds would probably be THE cars that might have worked the best in our tracks, but they never went to production, like everybody here knows.

Jrx2 was really rare here and I bought my first Losi when the long chassis and long front shocks came with some "Jack Johnson's performance kit?" Losi cars did have long enough suspension arms and suspension travel lenght. The gearbox was good enough also. When JrxPro came, there were more and more Losi cars over here.

Kyosho was a strong player that time. Their cars, Ultima, Optima(mid) were easy to build, handled well, were light and fast and spare parts were available. The first Lazer was too heavy, but it was easy to make lighter with big drill! Trimph was not a succesfull car and the later Lasers with Losi shocks etc. were too expensive here.

Schumacher did have the most effective driverain and their cars were the lightest and fastest. Suspension was also good enough to handle our tracks but these cars suffered really bad for being too complex to build, really poor quality and they were too fragile. Later they managed to make better quality cars like Cougar and Bosscat that were really popular here.

There were also on more British player PB, that did have their Mini Mustang.

Yokomo has been always around, but it suffered in our sandtracks, because small stones went so easily between rear belt and diff. Later Yokomo cars it didn't have enough steering and they didn't handle bumbs as well as ie. Schumachers did.

For Mrlexan: XX Was before B2. XX Was introcuded at 1993 worlds and B2 at 1995 Worlds. And if You ask me, I think that B2 was a copy of XX .

[MelvinsArmy]

Saying that there would be no Jrx2 if there wasn't an RC10 first is a bit of a moot point. You could say there would be not RC10 if there was not a Cox Scorpion or Tamiya Rough Rider. There were so many aftermarket hop ups for the RC10 at that point that the stock RC10 was an obsolete kit when the Jrx2 kit was introduced, just as the Scorpion became obsolete when the RC10 was introduced.

The Jrx2 came ready to race, (to late-80's specs, not mid-80's specs) right out of the box. You didn't have to spend as much on aftermarket parts as you did on the actual kit to make it competitive, like you did with the RC10. You could set it on the track box stock and win. I was there at the time, I did it myself. MIP might have made a better tranny first, but Losi was the first company to take the iniatitive and put one in it's kit. Along with a graphite chassis, better tires, longer suspension arms, and a lot of other improvements.

Nothing improves a product like a good kick in the butt from the competition. Associated sat on the same design for 4 years before making any improvements to it. You think the timing of the improvements AE made to the RC10 after the Jrx2 came out were just a coincidence? They knew they were no longer the top dog with what they had to offer, so it was either evolve or die.

I have the RCCA Jrx2 vs RC10 shootout. I should scan it in.

[xanadu]

I agree with the last post that said the B2 copied the XX. It seems to me that from 1980 to 1993 or so, Associated created new trends and ideas. (rc500, rc10, rc12L, rc10L, rc10t,) But then around that time and on, they have just followed Losi, picking up crumbs here and there. Look at 1/10 4wd, 1/8 scale gas, sedan cars, the plastic chassis cars and trucks (B2 and T3). What happened? Our leader, our John Wayne, has not been very creative over the last 15 years. It is easy to copy someone and improve a few things but I feel really let down by the A-Team these days.

[jwscab]

I would say it's just because the hobby and cars have evolved to the point that there isn't much left to improve. you could also say that the jrx2 was an even closer approximation of an ultima as well.(minus the aluminum chassis).

i'm just glad enough people liked the hobby enough and companies made enough profit that we aren't stuck restoring old radio shack cars, hahaha

[xanadu]

OK! I have to end this thread now, I have seen enough. Rc10 was better. Period. Like I said, anyone can copy someone else and improve a few things. The rc10 did not copy anything. I read on this website about the prototype that was based on full scale ideas. the losi was awesome. (I said that I own 2 of them) But it was a car that took the rc10 and improved a few things. The tranny was better, but not by much. "low rotating mass", someone please break out a scale and weigh the parts and post the results. Longer shocks, The one piece shock cartridges were about 1/2" long so there was wasted space. 5-link rear end? How long did that last before they came out with the "h-arms"? Just call them a-arms like everyone else on the planet. Graphite chassis? 1993 worlds was won by a metal chassis and if I recall almost every single part on the 93 worlds car can be bolted to the 1984 rc10. No rc10's did not change for years and there was a reason. They were still winning races.
My other proof is the world today. Rc10s bring much more money than jrx2's on e-bay. I know becase I am restoring one and the price for parts is freaking nuts. I saw a hornet sell for more than a jrx2 the other day! Anyway, I am not bashing losi because I think that now they are way more innovative than Associated, (how long now untill Associated releases a dirt oval car to copy Losi?) but the truth hurts. Losi is better than Associated now because Associated beat them up for so many years. The jrx2 never made the rc10 better. The people who owned them did. All of the parts were put into kits because racers asked for them. That's it! End of the song! No more posts! I am going to get kicked off of the thread that I started! I still love you though.
P.S. Sorry for the long boring post. I am waiting for another vintage part to end on e-bay. Besides, if you are reading this far, then you must find it a little interesting!

[Jirka]

This is interesting because everybody knows that own opinion is the right opinion and "evil dark side did this and that..." But somehow I feel now sad when debate about this Asso vs Losi thing. In the 80's and 90's this was "a matter of life and death". But now Asso is owned by Chinese ja Gil Losi jr left Team Losi and now there is only Losi left. As a Team Losi fan should I buy a Kyosho now?

[MelvinsArmy]

I have to admit at this point that I don't really have a preference of one car vs the other. The were both GREAT cars, for many different reasons. I always do feel a bit compelled to defend the Losis though, perhaps because they are the underdogs.


But this....

OK! I have to end this thread now, I have seen enough. Rc10 was better. Period. Like I said, anyone can copy someone else and improve a few things. The rc10 did not copy anything. I read on this website about the prototype that was based on full scale ideas. the losi was awesome. (I said that I own 2 of them) But it was a car that took the rc10 and improved a few things. The tranny was better, but not by much. "low rotating mass", someone please break out a scale and weigh the parts and post the results. Longer shocks, The one piece shock cartridges were about 1/2" long so there was wasted space. 5-link rear end? How long did that last before they came out with the "h-arms"? Just call them a-arms like everyone else on the planet. Graphite chassis? 1993 worlds was won by a metal chassis and if I recall almost every single part on the 93 worlds car can be bolted to the 1984 rc10. No rc10's did not change for years and there was a reason. They were still winning races.
My other proof is the world today. Rc10s bring much more money than jrx2's on e-bay. I know becase I am restoring one and the price for parts is freaking nuts. I saw a hornet sell for more than a jrx2 the other day! Anyway, I am not bashing losi because I think that now they are way more innovative than Associated, (how long now untill Associated releases a dirt oval car to copy Losi?) but the truth hurts. Losi is better than Associated now because Associated beat them up for so many years. The jrx2 never made the rc10 better. The people who owned them did. All of the parts were put into kits because racers asked for them. That's it! End of the song! No more posts! I am going to get kicked off of the thread that I started! I still love you though.
P.S. Sorry for the long boring post. I am waiting for another vintage part to end on e-bay. Besides, if you are reading this far, then you must find it a little interesting!

....is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen posted about this subject. No offense to you personally, but I don't think you know what you are talking about.

[Y'ernat Al]

Opinions sure make good threads. Funny how the very same passion shown above had to have been held by Eustace Moore while reinventing the SRB in an effort to bash Kyosho (Scorpions). Don't forget MIP is older than the RC10. Do we owe the stealth tranny to...GASP ...the Tamiya SRB? (..that may be a whole 'nother thread) Good Sat. afternoon read this was.

[murphy3428]

how about putting all there improvements together and coming out with a kyolosi 10 there you go new top dog

[MelvinsArmy]

I suppose it's human nature to crown a king. We do it in all other aspects of our lives. From picking our leaders, to listing the top rock bands of all time on a list, now we r/c nerds are doing it.

Really, all we have to go on with something like this is our opinion. These cars all owe their legacies to each other and to those who came before them. It's all intertwined. We could sit here and argue that The Rolling Stones are not as good as The Beatles, that the Mustang is better than the Camaro, the Yankess are better than the Red Sox, that blue is better than green, and on and on. There really is no end all be all defining answer.

But, it is fun to discuss.