Needing the collective for a great build.

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Ruffy
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Re: Needing the collective for a great build.

Post by Ruffy »

I honestly think if some of the top racers today that are currently in their prime, like Mayfield, Cavalleri, etc... were to be asked to setup and race an old gold pan CE with stealth 2.25 transmission (pretty much like my cars), and compete with it... that their laptimes would not be far off (less than .2-.4 of a second diff) their current times.
The basic engineering principles of the old RC10 are still very viable today and work extremely well, and the setup is the key. Racers here in Florida, are starting to see that 20+ year old cars and technology (Airtronics CS2P Radio on 27 mhz) still work perfectly and compete nearly every week side by side and normally the RC10 finishes between 1st place and 5th place in the A-Main. Remember a lot of this has to do with the driver, it isn't all car, which is why I made the statement in the first paragraph. You set the car up as best you can for your track conditions and then you need to drive it very well, in order to do well.
It doesn't matter if you race it against a B4.1 or the new TLR 22 either as we hope to see soon enough (can't wait!). If you have a state of the art buggy with the latest and best items on it, in the end you as a driver still need to go the race distance driving the car correctly and quickly.

This is why I enjoy racing the two gold tub CE's I have, one in the regular mod class with an 8.5 brushless system and the other in the stock 17.5 or vintage class 13.5 category. I feel I don't need a special vintage class to race the old RC10, and truely prefer to race it against the current cars and racers.
Remember I also bought a FT B4 but just prefer not to run it, since the laptimes and feel of the cars are so close, for me.
:D

I have to say I am not the ONLY one here seeing this as a few other racers have actually sold their B4's and are racing the RC10 in Team Car form. One racer commented after Tqing and winning a few races after the switch that his B4 never felt this good and easy to go fast with. This he did against Kyosho RB5's, Schumacher and B4.1 buggies.
Makes you wonder, there is a lot behind how you setup and drive the car.

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askbob
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Re: Needing the collective for a great build.

Post by askbob »

EXACTLY the information I was needing Ruffy. Gives me even more enthusiasm on the build. I'm sure my driving skills are nothing like they were many years ago, but with age comes patience and hopefully a bit of knowledge. Not saying I can go out and spank the track, but atleast I know the car is plenty capable.

Are the B4 shocks essentially the same(good/better) as the original shocks? I've located a carbon front tower to use with the B4 shocks.

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Ruffy
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Re: Needing the collective for a great build.

Post by Ruffy »

The front B4's are a bit longer (.89 vs .71), the longer shocks would help on a very rough track, but today's track are so smooth and hard packed that even the .71 size shocks are almost overkill, but I find they still work great.

For hard packed medium traction tracks, we have found that going to the #2 piston (current AE shock pistons and shock parts are 98% the same parts from the old days, so use either old or new) in all 4 shocks and approx. 35 wt oil works very well for a general setup. I use and suggest to add internal limiting washers on the shock shaft to limit down-travel of the shock shaft.
Here is what I have been using as a starting or general setup for today's hard-packed medium grip clay tracks. Right click and save to desktop But with the shock oil and pistons stated above.

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Re: Needing the collective for a great build.

Post by Ruffy »

Please also keep in mind what the other RC10 enthusiasts have mentioned here, as everyone is trying to help you have fun.
This information can and will be different depending on your racing area, so the things that work here in Central Florida, may not work in Southern California's very high traction indoor tracks, or the dusty tracks of the MidWest. So take-in the general information offered by all, and look at the track you will be driving on to try and find a setup or setup information for your local track. Don't be afraid to ask the fastest/quickest local racers for help either, the more knowledgeable they are the better.
If the first thing out of their mouths is "you don't stand a chance with an old car" then my advice is not to take their advice and find someone else to help you. True, real-good racers know that all well engineered cars can and will finish well if setup correctly and driven well, and most will be happy to help... especially if you can find some of the old school sponsored racers getting back into racing or just hanging out at the track... so ask around.
I wish you the best of luck and just remember to have fun, first and foremost. Once you understand that no matter how good you are, you can't win all the time or qualify well all the time, the world becomes a much better place.
:D

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askbob
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Re: Needing the collective for a great build.

Post by askbob »

Thanks again! That spec sheet will give me a great baseline on getting back in the saddle. I'm with you on having fun. That's really what it's all about for me. The competitive side to this is all but a small part of why I'm wanting to do this again. The fun/relaxing part is 95% of why I'm doing it. I remember vividly back in the day when several of the guys would actually pack up and leave after getting so mad. A couple were asked not to come back. The rest of us just laughed about it and helped each other out. That is the cool part of most r/c clubs; competitive but fun and helpful. I really appreciate everyones input so far and welcome more!

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Re: Needing the collective for a great build.

Post by Johnboy72 »

PBR Allstar wrote:
Johnboy72 wrote:Hmmm. So it can handle with the modern cars. Wonder if we can make a goldie complete against terminators and modern dirt oval cars?

a couple years ago I ran a season on loose dirt running 13.5 edm based off a team car with a lot of mods. I ran in the top three a couple times, but since then all the major manufactures (C/W, GFRP, Putnam & JRC) have introduced loose dirt/buggy tire specific parts and cars. I honestly do not think you can make a pan based RC10 competitive at this point against good drivers with well sorted cars.
Well it wouldn't be loose dirt, would be packed indoor track. I have a Havoc and Kranzel sitting on the same shelf as the Cadillac. So have that to go off of. Might just find a junk chassis and play with it. Mid motor it, modify the shock towers to run some TC3 shocks or whatever everyone is using. When all said and done, wouldn't be much more than a chassis and noseplate but I could still say it was a RC10. lol. Sorry to threadjack!!!

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Re: Needing the collective for a great build.

Post by askbob »

Mid motor sounds nice.

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Re: Needing the collective for a great build.

Post by PBR Allstar »

Johnboy72 wrote:
PBR Allstar wrote:
Johnboy72 wrote:Hmmm. So it can handle with the modern cars. Wonder if we can make a goldie complete against terminators and modern dirt oval cars?

a couple years ago I ran a season on loose dirt running 13.5 edm based off a team car with a lot of mods. I ran in the top three a couple times, but since then all the major manufactures (C/W, GFRP, Putnam & JRC) have introduced loose dirt/buggy tire specific parts and cars. I honestly do not think you can make a pan based RC10 competitive at this point against good drivers with well sorted cars.
Well it wouldn't be loose dirt, would be packed indoor track. I have a Havoc and Kranzel sitting on the same shelf as the Cadillac. So have that to go off of. Might just find a junk chassis and play with it. Mid motor it, modify the shock towers to run some TC3 shocks or whatever everyone is using. When all said and done, wouldn't be much more than a chassis and noseplate but I could still say it was a RC10. lol. Sorry to threadjack!!!
I think mid pack a main car is gonna be about the best you'd get out of it. The new cars that are specifically designed are just so much better. I have a couple 2.25 terminators, one that is a shelfer and one that is an old racer. There are certain fundamental problems that are hard to over come, the hinge pin spacing in the rear and how it affects the roll couple front to rear is the biggest thing, and it's a pretty big one.

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Ruffy
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Re: Needing the collective for a great build.

Post by Ruffy »

I agree with pbr allstar, especially with the current modern dedicated oval cars. From the onset, the RC10 was not designed to be an oval car, but it was made to work in this capacity with mods.
Cars made specifically to be used as great oval cars will be hard to be equal to with an RC10, even a B4.1.

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