RC10 Cad Project

General discussion, builds/restorations, etc...

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Jay Dub
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Re: RC10 Cad Project

Post by Jay Dub »

DMAT -Looks great, try rendering in "Perspective" mode. Currently the image looks a little scrunched in the foreground. -J

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THEYTOOKMYTHUMB
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Re: RC10 Cad Project

Post by THEYTOOKMYTHUMB »

Looks awesome, but I can't help but think of this video every time I see those killer 3d pics. 8)

[youtube]lAD6Obi7Cag[/youtube]
"The world looks so much better through beer goggles: Enjoy today, you never know what tomorrow may bring."
Ken

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toyranosaur
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Re: RC10 Cad Project

Post by toyranosaur »

Well, I must chime in on the machining aspect, 'cause I'm me! :roll: Without gettin' all techy, there is a reason there are so few chaps doing small Ltd. Edition runs of true CNC R/C parts (I'm the only idiot, it seems.) Basically, if one has the multiple skills- Design, CAD, toolpathing, setup, a little aesthetic ability, etc. PLUS the patience to take several years of schooling to master these, AND the $ to tool up with the CAD & CNC equipment, lathe, cutters, saws, grinders, blah blah, it seems only intelligent that you would then seek out the best return on your considerable investment, no?

Doing RC parts is not the ticket to riches! One can make a living, sorta, after the equipment is paid off (Another couple years) until then you're working to pay for it. Now, I'm not complaining! However, as Flipwillis asked, why cant'cha just plug in the CAD & a part pops out? A valid question- The fast answer is it just ain't that simple. The longer answer follows, and I do NOT mean to disparage anyone's efforts in CAD or any other aspect of manufacturing!! I attempt here, using my business as an example, to contextualize the processes.

Renderings are very cool! But CAD is only 1 part of a very involved and tecnical process to making a part, and the mill can't see the cool picture- All it wants is code to tell it what to do, where to go, which tool to use, and how fast to spin it and feed it into the material. Which also takes a lot more experience and knowledge than you'd think- If not right, it can break, tear up the material, leave a lousy finish, etc. I spend a LOT of time on the CAD and, more importantly, the toolpathing- This is what makes actual parts possible, not so much the drawing- the drawing is only useful if it is to be toolpathed and eventually made. Until then, it's just Neat-O.

To hold the part, one must usually design & make fixtures to hold the metal while cutting, get exact repeatability, etc. (For a proto, sometimes you can fudge a bit.) I may have to make up to 4 fixtures to machine 1 part- No one thinks of this, do they? :o So that's FIVE parts to make 1 part, Hmmm, why things are kinda costly begins to get clearer...

Then prototypes are made, things are changed, run again, changed, run again, ....Finally it's all good, but this takes time and material.

So the production begins: Hopefully enough units sold to make a little money. (Notice that this is a short paragraph: Up until now, whether I make 1 or 100 units, the work is the same: That's why one-off custom stuff costs SOO damn much!)

Then things must be washed of coolant if practical, major deburring & edge breaking done, etc. This is manual, so is not practical to do everything and some is commonly left to the buyer, but is still a pain. Then packaging, hardware, mailing, correpondance, ordering tooling & material, marketing, etc. etc.

So, my customers, for example, get a huge deal whether they think so or not- For proof, again, why is there no one banging these CADded parts out? There are places online that will make you one or a quantity of parts- But no one uses these services, why? Why is no one else doing what I am? Why do no local shops do these parts once the CAD is drawn? There is only one logical answer: Cost. Why so costly? Because you can't just plug in the CAD & have parts pop out (Not yet, anyway: They're working on such and I'll be obsolete one day, but not soon.)

One can cut corners by going to China, using inferior material or hardware, skipping detail, etc. but the biggest way to make $ is to address more popular cars- If I had more sense than passion, I'd be all over short-course parts.

Computers are great tools indeed, but they're just tools for a skilled human to use. Hand the nicest guitar ever made to someone who does not play, and the result is garbage. Comps don't replace skill, they enhance it IF you now learn the new skills to use them!

So, while none of the steps are dispensable, there are also none so important that they deserve disproportionate praise. I've actually had a guy who wanted a part Email me a file & say "I've done the hard part, so...." Needless to say, he was shocked at the estimate & thought I was ripping him off big time. :lol: All quality manufacturing takes the same steps, tools, equipment, skills, etc. whether you're doing Aerospace parts or toy car parts. I hope I have not offended anyone in any way! It just seems that this info is all but unknown to people outside of a Mfg. environment, so I hope this is educational to anyone who wants to know (If not, you just wasted a bunch of time, Sorry!) :wink: Chris Cazan REC

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Diamond Dave
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Re: RC10 Cad Project

Post by Diamond Dave »

Thanks for that Chris, It gives me (and I hope many of us) a much better prospective on what it entails to produce a nice shiny aluminum part.

I look forward to the next offering, the work you do is impeccable.

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DMAT
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Re: RC10 Cad Project

Post by DMAT »

I completely understand where your coming from chris. This project may go down that road at some point. Until then. For me, this is a hobby and what I do for a living. I enjoy it and while it can be time consuming, I see myself possibly benefiting it in the future.

Like I said. Doing this is enjoyable to me and thats all that really matters.

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328isjohn
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Re: RC10 Cad Project

Post by 328isjohn »

Just to add my two cents to chris's ...there is a reason I tell my friends I am welder..they want me to make stuff for them all the time...bike parts...rc car parts..truck parts...had to make a handle for my dads storm window after he broke it....knives...yes I said Knives...after doing 2-D and 3-D work all day...yes I do the Cad to code to machining work..I don't want to spend ALL the time involved in making a part when after putting a value on my time to make said part..I would be better off just to go buy it for them from a store and have my free time.

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328isjohn
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Re: RC10 Cad Project

Post by 328isjohn »

And I might add....Chris I can't believe how cheap you sold some of the parts you made because I know whats involved in making them...

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Re: RC10 Cad Project

Post by jwscab »

see, after looking at all that overhead to make a one off part, that's what makes no sense to me. Why go through all the trouble to do a handful of parts? At that point the overhead is done, and as you make more parts, the unit costs go down. It's almost a crime to leave the jigs and programs sitting idle after all the hard work.

Hopefully, that CNC machine is still cranking out parts as we discuss this, otherwise you are losing money.

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toyranosaur
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Re: RC10 Cad Project

Post by toyranosaur »

Well, I got a 'Holiday Weekend' since my 1/2" plate didn't make it Friday...A lot of chaps who know what goes into a part think I'm crazy, making so few parts once all the work is done: But I don't wanna go the usual route, make parts, stock, re-fill, etc. for a lot of reasons. Mostly, I'd be bored! :shock:

Yes, I work a lot, and spend most of my days solving problems, setting up, etc. and not really using the 'power of the CNC' to make a bunch of parts once all the preliminaries are done. But, then I'd have to re-do the same 6 parts over & over as I'd have no time to develop new stuff: I'd have to use dealers to move enough product, and I'd lose the ability to deal with my customers directly.

I'm growing, slowly, but it's kinda like the 'Artisanal' movement so popular today- Small batches of hand-made breads, coffees, beer, home decor, & such but with R/C parts. I have no desire to become very big, just a little bigger! If I went 'mainstream' all the panache of owning my parts would go out the window.

Dmat, take no offense at my post: I can't do what you do! And it's art in its own right- I'd rather have one of your renderings on my shop wall than a lot of other things. I've got a couple prints, which are kinda neat, but nothing like your stuff. truly beautiful, and I don't blow smoke just to be 'correct'- If I say it, I mean it Mate. :D I was just trying to let people in on the whole process, and my CAD, while bare-bones useful, does not allow me to see ahead to the final product: It's all imagined until it comes outta the mill, and sometimes the surprises are not pretty..... :oops:

I do think I undercharge for most things, but that's my perspective! The customer base I want, while upper-end, should not be so elitist that most chaps can't afford 'em (Just real close! :P ) Chris REC

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Re: RC10 Cad Project

Post by cooltoys »

Thumbs up for both of you doing all these stuff for the love of the hobby. Chris http://www.rogueelementcomponents.com done lots of cool stuff for our toys. I guess i was one of those lucky guys before who he did a custom item a long time ago. I know it was a lot of work just doing a piece. Thanks for that. :D Guys help him & sign up for his newsletter/updates so you can buy his custom stuff. On a note you cannot buy his stuff outside the stores or other online places. I have bought quite a few custom parts from all i can say is thumbs up!! :D :D
Rc10 newbie...
Turbo ultima
Turbo optima project
Srb projects

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DMAT
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Re: RC10 Cad Project

Post by DMAT »

Giving myself a shameless bump so its easier to find later. Havent had as much time As I'd like to to work on this but i'll post a picture of where im currently at later on.

I never did get the front wheels designed so thats next on my list.

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Re: RC10 Cad Project

Post by scr8p »

bookmark it, then manage it in the UCP.

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DMAT
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Re: RC10 Cad Project

Post by DMAT »

Latest status. Wheels and Tires Modeled. Think my rear wheels are spaced out a little too far so its sorta distorting the normal look lol.

I'll either be doing shocks or some hardware to get things spaced better at the wheels.

Image

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slotcarrod
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Re: RC10 Cad Project

Post by slotcarrod »

Neat but should the image be reversed? Closer parts look smaller than further parts!

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DMAT
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Re: RC10 Cad Project

Post by DMAT »

slotcarrod wrote:Neat but should the image be reversed? Closer parts look smaller than further parts!
I dont think there is any distortion going on.

Its just how the picture angle is I think. The rear tires are set too far appart at moment and I think my stance is off. After everything is modeled in, I'll tweek the way it sits to make it look better.

Also, I have no clue what im doing with rendering, I'm just going along with what I make.

EDIT: After throwing it into another program that can do a semi full time render, It did do the distortion that was needed and it looks right now. Still learning for now.

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