RC10.44 : Shaft Drive 4WD RC10

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Re: RC10.44 : Shaft Drive 4WD RC10

Post by broodenburg »

awsome...... very factory- isch and that is ment as a huge compliment !

how do you think the car will compare to a b44?

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Re: RC10.44 : Shaft Drive 4WD RC10

Post by Bubbleboy »

Thank you for the kind words.

That's a good question, I have no idea. Even though I have two completed builds, and three underway (which includes this one) in the last four months, the last time a drove an RC car was 1987. Might have to get someone local to give you that assessment once I get a radio and an ESC.
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Re: RC10.44 : Shaft Drive 4WD RC10

Post by RC104ever »

This is very exciting! I would think with the aluminum tub vs the B44's Carbon chassis, this *should* handle better over jumps and stuff since it potentially could have a lower centre of gravity. I would guess the handling will be similar to the Ten4 project but it would be more nose heavy since it has a bigger front diff.

I really love my B44 but the B5M I have is incredibly smooth and responsive by comparison. If this works, I would hope it would be as smooth as a B5M but it would be all wheel drive.
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Re: RC10.44 : Shaft Drive 4WD RC10

Post by harvey »

i like what you're doing here. With regards to your steering, when I look at it I think of using rc10t steering arms (the original long ones, not the GT/DS shorties). The reason is that you could drill your chassis for the holes behind the two holding on your nose plate ( where the lwb holes would be on an uncut nose plate). This may give you more room to put a drag link half way along the steering arm, maybe behind the cv joint.. Also, if you want to improve your geo's, think about mounting them out further towards the wheels, based around a steering tie-rod that is the same length as your front suspension arms.

Maybe this makes sense or doesn't help; either way keep going!

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Re: RC10.44 : Shaft Drive 4WD RC10

Post by Bubbleboy »

Thanks for the idea of the truck bellcranks Harvey. We're thinking the same thing with regards to the mounting points, I will be drilling just behind the two existing screws that hold the nose plate on. We'll see how the Ten4 cranks work out, but it's great to know I have an AE option.

Chris, as you're not too far away, if there's an indoor track nearby, it might be a good place for the maiden voyage. You can see how it compares against your B44.
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Re: RC10.44 : Shaft Drive 4WD RC10

Post by RC104ever »

Bubbleboy wrote: Chris, as you're not too far away, if there's an indoor track nearby, it might be a good place for the maiden voyage. You can see how it compares against your B44.
I would honoured! Just let me know when and where and I will be there :) I've only driven on a track twice (and I sucked both times even in practice) so it would be a good chance to hone my skills
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Re: RC10.44 : Shaft Drive 4WD RC10

Post by Bubbleboy »

My Ten4 bellcranks came in tonite from Shapeways. Measured them up, fortunately one just so happened to use an existing servo mount hole, it just needed to be bored out to 8/32 and re-countersunk. My flanged bearings from Avid were back ordered so I used some bushings for a test fit.

Well......IT'S GOING TO WORK!!!!!! I get full travel of the steering blocks!

Image

There is next to zero room under the front of the bellcranks as they needed to clear the nosepiece, since they are mounted directly to the chassis. I'm going to make a 2mm Carbon fiber bar to join the two bellcranks at the rear.

Guess I better get ordering that steering servo....
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Re: RC10.44 : Shaft Drive 4WD RC10

Post by JK Racing »

What if you did something like this (in the stock holes of the 10-4 steering)?
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Re: RC10.44 : Shaft Drive 4WD RC10

Post by Bubbleboy »

That was the design I was hoping to use, but due to the height of the bellcranks it would hit the tranny input shaft at med-full travel. I'll get a side pic that shows how little room there is in there. Thanks for the suggestion though.
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Re: RC10.44 : Shaft Drive 4WD RC10

Post by Bubbleboy »

Winter be damned! Who says you need to feel your fingers to fabricate parts in an unheated garage :lol: Steering's done though.

Image

Image
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Re: RC10.44 : Shaft Drive 4WD RC10

Post by klavy69 »

You don't need no stinkin heat to work in :mrgreen:
\
Lookin good. Just doesn't look like alot of room to swing on the steering before hitting the side of the pan. You get full steering without hitting?

Patiently waiting for progress reports on this one 8)

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Re: RC10.44 : Shaft Drive 4WD RC10

Post by Bubbleboy »

Thanks Todd.

Well, I may have spoken too soon. Being not entirely happy with the turning radius of the outer wheel, I removed the carbon fibre brace and attached a tie rod. I didn't really gain anything, unfortunately.

Here's what I'm getting. Turning hard left, the inner wheel gets full travel, pic#1. The outer is about 75%, pic#2. But at full suspension compression, pic#3 turns in another 10%. I've asked Brian if his Ten4 has the same tendancies.

Image

Image

Image

One last thing....JK Racing, with it being Valentine's Day, I'm good with saying....yes dear, you're right....I was wrong....LOL. I do need to somehow tie the bellcranks together at the front. While the carbon fibre brace at the rear was ok, the tie rod and ballcups at the back are terrible, waaaaay to much flex in the steering. I mocked up some U type templates, but they won't fit until I get the bellcranks lowered by another millimetre. Off to the hardware store tomorrow.

I'm on to my third upper deck that ties the rear tranny to the motor mount. Being just the slightest out when using countersink screws has been tremendously frustrating. My fourth attempt, I'm going to try something a little different, including purchasing a more industrial 82 and 100 degree countersink bits.

Thanks everyone for all your input during this build. There's a lot of experience on this board that I've benefitted from.
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Re: RC10.44 : Shaft Drive 4WD RC10

Post by GoMachV »

What you are seeing is bump steer. You want the bellcranks 1.5" apart at the center link to make the bellcranks work as designed, then get the tie rods as parallel to the upper rods as you can. That should get rid of most of the bump steer. Also make sure your camber links are high enough. On the ten4 if you use the lower holes it throws the bump steer all wonky.
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Re: RC10.44 : Shaft Drive 4WD RC10

Post by JK Racing »

The inner and outer wheel at different angles is also ackerman. The wheels should not be parallel, there needs to be more on the inside than the outside. If you have another 4wd car, measure the amount of ackerman at full steer to see if you are close or not. Adjust your center link to achieve the proper setting (Search YouTube, I think Drake did a whole video on ackerman and adjustments and effects).

Bump steer (evil bump steer), is usually adjusted with ball stud height on the steering knuckle. Try a washer or 2 on the steering knuckles. Test bump steer with the wheels straight, it should be present at all angles. I dont think Brian had any on his 10-4 when I had it in hand, we cycled the front suspension quite a lot, looking at all the angles working together. Pretty amazing overall.
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Re: RC10.44 : Shaft Drive 4WD RC10

Post by Bubbleboy »

Great info, thanks guys!

It appears the Ackerman is set up correctly (sorry no other 4wd to compare against, it's been canabalized), I now have to work on my bump steer. I'm going to adjust the mount point of the upper tie rod to see if that helps as well.

If memory serves, my short arm had little bump steer compared to my Hot Shot. I think I remember it being plagued by horrific bump steer.
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