Tamiya 58695 Wild One Blockhead Motors at SilverTriple's sauce :)

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Tamiya 58695 Wild One Blockhead Motors at SilverTriple's sauce :)

Post by silvertriple »

Hi everyone, and happy new year!

My next build is going to be the Wild One. I'm not really a fan of the pre painted body, neither the stickers forcing fake sponsors, so I'll do at my own sauce. This morning, I gather all the parts together in the box to make sure I have everything to start
Image

Ingredients
  • Vinyls, as I need to do something different and non box art :)
  • Cheap light buckets less toyish
  • Led kits
  • TBLE-02S and Lipo Alarm, set for Bruhsless
  • Brushless blue can 13.5T motor
  • ball bearings
  • Wires and bullet connectors the motor
  • Other things not present on the picture : 3D Printed led rear attachement, license plate, connectors for leds on the body shell
It will probably take some time but I will detail this build as much as my previous ones, and this will happen over the next few days/weeks.
I buy kits to build and ru(i)n them :-)

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Re: Tamiya 58695 Wild One Blockhead Motors at SilverTriple's sauce :)

Post by silvertriple »

@XLR8, I had a look at the gearbox in the instruction manual, there is only one washer.
Image

There was a change in the gearbox between the original FAV/Wild One and re-release quite similar to other kits such as the frog to change the dogbones for some that won't pop out (original ones where hex balls).

I also note that all bearing kits I saw were mentioning 3 850 bearings, but I believe only 2 are required for the counter gear, and that replacing the metal bearing next to the big bevel gear on the right side doesn't make any sense to my understanding, unless something escape my mind due to remains of yesterdays consumption :)

Any case it is step 18 and metal parts bag B, so probably not this week I'll get into this step :)

In the meantime, the work started by high resolution scan of the stickers page, and I'm working in Silhouette Studio to prepare the vinyl work.
I buy kits to build and ru(i)n them :-)

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Re: Tamiya 58695 Wild One Blockhead Motors at SilverTriple's sauce :)

Post by silvertriple »

Quick update on my last post:
I got confirmation about my assumption that the third 850 ball bearing is useless and only used as a spacer...

@XLR8, I'm not sure what issue you faced with the washer, but I believe it is required. If you give too much lateral space with this differential, it will expand, like it does on other chassis where the gearbox is not strong enough (ORV, specially on the models with big wheels such as the Monster Beetle)...

That being said, I remember I thought having and issue with the rear gearbox from the SuperHotshot while I was having some difficulties to close it. I did it exactly as per the instruction, reopened it, recheked and retried and it worked. And that maybe what you were facing. To my understanding, the washer only serves as spacer, in complement of the 850 bearing which is also used as spacer...

You may want to provide more information on the issue itself. But as far as I get, it doesn't seem anyone else reported such an issue on tamiyaclub, tamiyabase and others where I saw those being built already...
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Re: Tamiya 58695 Wild One Blockhead Motors at SilverTriple's sauce :)

Post by XLR8 »

silvertriple wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 1:48 pm @ XLR8, I had a look at the gearbox in the instruction manual, there is only one washer.
...

I also note that all bearing kits I saw were mentioning 3 850 bearings, but I believe only 2 are required for the counter gear, and that replacing the metal bearing next to the big bevel gear on the right side doesn't make any sense to my understanding, unless something escape my mind due to remains of yesterdays consumption :)

...
haha... Yes, thank you for posting that image, that's precisely what caught my attention.

Since the kit is supplied with plastic "bearings" :roll:, I think there should be a metal thrust plate provided for both diff side bevel gears but the manual shows the bronze 850 bushing (functions as a spacer so a ball bearing isn't needed) and washer on the left side and nothing on the right side.
So I've test-fitted the diff assembly with drive cups into the trans cases per the manual and noticed that apparently the washer is also shifting the assembly off center. The left drive cup is contacting the case while the right cup has a gap. When the washer is moved to the right side, the cup-to-case gap is more equal. I've also noticed that with the supplied washer installed in either position and substituting the plastics with ball bearings, the diff assembly is very tight in the cases and doesn't spin free. I'm speculating that Tamiya has added the washer to provide some preload to the diff gears to prevent them skipping under a high load. Since I'll run my car exclusively with the supplied silver can brushed motor, I'm not worried about gears skipping so I've replaced the kit's 0.5mm thick washer with a shim that is 0.3mm thick and the diff assembly spins free. With the counter gear installed, the mesh seems a bit tight but there's nothing I can do about that. This car is made from molds dated 1984 so it's fare to assume they've lost some precision.

On a side note, the supplied damper springs are really stiff - especially the rear ones. I've loaded the car with the heaviest NiMh battery I have plus 4 AA batteries (to simulate a receiver pack) and the added weight doesn't even begin to compress the springs. This is unacceptable so I'm testing alternative springs at the moment. For some reason, early Tamiya's always seem to be over sprung and over dampened so the vehicle bounces along on its tires while the suspension does nothing. Lighter damper fluid and softer springs should solve that problem.

Also, I've heard that the supplied brass ball studs are brittle so I've pre-threaded the steering arms before installing the studs. I just used a 2mm hex screw for this purpose.

That said, I think the Wild One and Kyosho's Turbo Scorpion are among the very best looking RC buggies ever produced. I'm looking forward to what seeing what you have planned for your copy. :D
Doug

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Re: Tamiya 58695 Wild One Blockhead Motors at SilverTriple's sauce :)

Post by silvertriple »

Doug,

Thanks for the detail explanations... I was scratching my head about the issue...
I read your post in detail, and I have another theory about the issue: the Wild One BM has a very different finish from the other variants. The other variants are likely moulded within coloured plastic. This one is metal plated. It means there is an additional finish added over the full cluster. That may induce 0.1 mm or less material in addition, exactly causing what you describe.

As matter of fact, when you look at the issues reported on the Turbo Optima, some of them are likely related to the Gold finish added other the same parts used on a Javelin/Optima on which I never saw any issues of that type reported in any of the forum i'm posting on...

In any case, thanks for the precision, I'll pay attention when I'll proceed into the build :)

And I 100% agree on the statement about the Wild One and the Turbo Scorpion. I'll add the Samurai in this category...
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Re: Tamiya 58695 Wild One Blockhead Motors at SilverTriple's sauce :)

Post by XLR8 »

You're probably right about the plating. One benefit however is that the plating makes bearings fit nice and snug. Unfortunately, the axles are undersize so the wheels wobble. :( Tamiya crap!

Anyway, I agree with you about the light cases - with their exposed interior screw bosses, they're absolutely dreadful. And, molding them in yellow makes the car look like it came from Fisher Price.
Rather than tossing the light cases aside, I'm gonna try to fit polished metal reflectors so they appear more like the box illustration (I won't be installing LEDS). Come to think of it, with an extra set of lenses, maybe they could be painted and reversed to resemble reflectors -- but they only give you 6 lenses. Sometimes I wonder if "Tamiya" is a Japanese word meaning "to disappoint". :roll:

"Sorry to Tamiya, but I won't be able to attend today's meeting." :lol:
Doug

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Re: Tamiya 58695 Wild One Blockhead Motors at SilverTriple's sauce :)

Post by silvertriple »

XLR8 wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 7:12 pm You're probably right about the plating. One benefit however is that the plating makes bearings fit nice and snug. Unfortunately, the axles are undersize so the wheels wobble. :( Tamiya crap!

Anyway, I agree with you about the light cases - with their exposed interior screw bosses, they're absolutely dreadful. And, molding them in yellow makes the car look like it came from Fisher Price.
Rather than tossing the light cases aside, I'm gonna try to fit polished metal reflectors so they appear more like the box illustration (I won't be installing LEDS). Come to think of it, with an extra set of lenses, maybe they could be painted and reversed to resemble reflectors -- but they only give you 6 lenses. Sometimes I wonder if "Tamiya" is a Japanese word meaning "to disappoint". :roll:

"Sorry to Tamiya, but I won't be able to attend today's meeting." :lol:
1. wobble, slop and heavy play are just Tamiya features. I was surprised that the steering mounted on the M06 with ball bearings have more play than some of my cars without bearings for similar steering features... It actually gives me a good reason to say that the car is the problem and not the driver (while, to be honest, i'm just a poor driver, but thanks to Tamiya, I have a car excuse :-D)
2. for the light buckets, they would work slightly better in black. I could dye them and paint the inside with Molotov Liquid Chrome, it would be sllghtly better, but still for a car with a potential to have a nice scale effect, it won't look right. I have those on the Hornet in black, and I can't look at them. I put them aside, and will use them at some point (my kids are less concern about the realism than I am :-) ). They could have done much better...
3. That said, they have put some stickers to hide the mess (look at the ones with the 3, they are made for this). But still, not good enough to my state. Lens wise, you may try to recut contact lenses cases. They are good reflector, I use on my lunchbox or they can do exactly what you need to complete what you need painted in liquid chrome molotow paint... (Just adding pictures of what you can do with contact lenses cases within a lexan body shell for reference...)
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Image
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Re: Tamiya 58695 Wild One Blockhead Motors at SilverTriple's sauce :)

Post by XLR8 »

Holly smokes, that's an excellent suggestion :!: :shock:
I kept looking at that sheet of lexan light lenses and thinking "Now, where have I seen that before?" :oops:
Doug

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Re: Tamiya 58695 Wild One Blockhead Motors at SilverTriple's sauce :)

Post by silvertriple »

XLR8 wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:24 am Holly smokes, that's an excellent suggestion :!: :shock:
I kept looking at that sheet of lexan light lenses and thinking "Now, where have I seen that before?" :oops:
As far as I read on other forums, it seems the same light buckets are delivered within some Comical Buggys kits. And they also exists as hop ups...
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Re: Tamiya 58695 Wild One Blockhead Motors at SilverTriple's sauce :)

Post by silvertriple »

Today is about decisions:
  • yellow is going away
  • white ovals for the numbers and maybe part of the flag
  • Gun Metal and silver for the rest
Main vinyls are done and ready for later use. Time to find sponsor stickers... I have a set of Traxxas stickers left here that may do it:
Image

Still looking for other options, but at least the main idea is there...
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Re: Tamiya 58695 Wild One Blockhead Motors at SilverTriple's sauce :)

Post by XLR8 »

That's an interesting decal sheet - i wasn't aware Traxxas was offering it.
Back in my hot rod days (70's and 80's), I've bought parts from most of the manufacturers represented on that sheet. Really brings back memories.

Anyway, here's what I'm doing for rear springs - FYI. I think they are RC10T fronts but not sure about that. They're not perfect but at least now I have around 4mm droop with a standard 2s lipo in the car. I think the kit springs came from a locomotive. :roll:
The spring cups are scratch made - I can provide dimensions if you're interested.
P1011054 (2).JPG
I'm always a bit reluctant to post my photos in another member's build thread. Just say the word and I'll remove it. No worries! :wink:
Doug

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Re: Tamiya 58695 Wild One Blockhead Motors at SilverTriple's sauce :)

Post by silvertriple »

XLR8 wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:41 pm That's an interesting decal sheet - i wasn't aware Traxxas was offering it.
Back in my hot rod days (70's and 80's), I've bought parts from most of the manufacturers represented on that sheet. Really brings back memories.

Anyway, here's what I'm doing for rear springs - FYI. I think they are RC10T fronts but not sure about that. They're not perfect but at least now I have around 4mm droop with a standard 2s lipo in the car. I think the kit springs came from a locomotive. :roll:
The spring cups are scratch made - I can provide dimensions if you're interested.

P1011054 (2).JPG

I'm always a bit reluctant to post my photos in another member's build thread. Just say the word and I'll remove it. No worries! :wink:
Interesting. I do know the dampers/springs are far from perfect from the videos and reviews I saw, but intend to do my own opinion about this before addressing this. That being said, I've saw all sort of solutions with replacement of the Tamiya dampers by crawlers' dampers which may give both a better scale effect and better dampening... But as said: each step in due time :)

And I don't mind people sharing knowledge or interesting ideas on my threads, as I believe that forums are made for this :)
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Re: Tamiya 58695 Wild One Blockhead Motors at SilverTriple's sauce :)

Post by XLR8 »

Yeah, apart from having only one o-ring, I think the dampers will be fine for this car. The problem is with the springs.
I've read that CRP has offered a soft spring kit for the Frog that will also fit the WO but I prefer to use what I have on hand.

Maybe, if I were planning to race my car, I'd consider replacing the dampers. The kit dampers should be fine for my purposes.

Also, suspension travel front and rear isn't great. The rear arms interfere with the roll cage further limiting the arm's up travel so I'm planning to remove a small section of the webbing on the rear arm to regain full travel. I guess one could notch the cage and leave the arms intact but the cage a structural member supporting the motor/transmission so I'll mod the arms.

I'm also making spring cups for the front dampers that will lower the spring to gain more droop and to better retain the spring (the kit spring cups are far too small for the supplied springs). I'm omitting the G2 preload spacers; they're pointless.

I think perhaps Tamiya has adopted a function follows form approach when designing their early buggies. The suspension on their modern buggies seems to work much better.

My car will be boring box art so I wasn't planning to post a build series. Thanks for allowing comments on your build thread. :D
Doug

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Re: Tamiya 58695 Wild One Blockhead Motors at SilverTriple's sauce :)

Post by silvertriple »

I do like the look of the Wild One, but to be honest, I do not intend to make it a heavy runner. The overall idea of going for a Wild One took its root to last summer on a beach when I was using my Hornet or my Lunchbox, and where I thought it could be great to have a Baja racing looking buggy... And I would not dare running my Turbo Scorpion in an environment with sea, sand and salt... The Wild One will be perfect for this :)

That being said, I find the parallel between the Scorpion and the Wild One interesting : the Scorpion was released quite a few years before the Wild One and the FAV, with more setting possibilities in the front and probably similar suspension travel at the rear and the suspension were quite improved with the Turbo Scorpion dampers (with longer travel as well, I believe - I may want to check the Scorpion and Tomahawk dampers, by the way, they may fit the purpose)... And this remind me a picture I saw this week-end of a Wild One modified to use Scorpion rear arms, possibly with better suspension travel... I don't intend to do that, as it would fail completely the purpose of having a sea, salt and sand buggy capable with lower risk of rust (and less items to replace at the end of the sessions). I intend to focus on the damper, and for the suspension travel, i'll make my own idea once it is built...

And I would tend to agree with you on the approach to use what I have at hand first, but the thing is I want this one to be quite special, so I intend to get a bit farer from Tamiya/Blockhead Motors partition than many (did I said already I'm not sure to be able to do box art cars anymore? :-D)
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Re: Tamiya 58695 Wild One Blockhead Motors at SilverTriple's sauce :)

Post by XLR8 »

Ah yes, there is one benefit to having a nearly entirely plastic car; it will never corrode.

The steering tie rods are very short and to achieve zero toe angle, they will thread into the ball cups with only a few turns. The manual instructs you to trim-off the wrench flats from the end of the ball cups making the thread engagement even less if not done properly (step 30, page 15). Apparently this is done because the wrench flats interfere with the damper springs when the wheels are steered to full lock. Anyway, to preserve the ball cup's full length, trim the wrench flats along the threading axis not perpendicular to the axis as shown in the manual. The difference is only 1.5mm but the extra length might prevent the rod pulling out of the cup.

Also, I'm omitting the bumper; I just don't like it.
Doug

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