Low, low Losi prices

[AscotConversion]

When I was racing in the late 80's /early 90's, Losi's were definitely RACE cars. Tons and tons of kids had RC10s, but if you had a Losi, you probably raced at least casually. How many RC10's on ebay do you see with crazy road rash from being jumped off of curbs?

AE's popularity probably comes from the fact that the same car (essentially) was sold for around 10 years, and many many people remember them. As usual, the racer market share is way less than the fun share. I don't think that what option parts you can put on a car attract attention as much as what you remember and wanted as a kid.

I do know that Losi kicked the crap out of Associated for a really long time, outside of the Worlds. AE really didn't get their crap together until almost 2000.

[stulec52]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Federation_of_Model_Auto_Racing

this page has some good info about who has won World titles over the years.

For me, I'm a racer, and although I tried a couple of Losi cars when they came along, I had much more success with RC-10s ( although Schuamcher for me was better again)
I won a couple of large events with RC-10s, never won squat with a Losi until 2004 !
SO, I have kept the Losi ( xxx) I won with in 04, 05, 06 and 07, but I personally have better memories of the RC-10 over the Losi, so I don't need anymore Losis.

Also, as others have stated, RC-10s outsold Losi by rather a lot, so you have to think that those guys who raced in the early days who like many of us have reached an age where they have some cash to buy a display model or 2, are much more likely to look for an RC-10.

Not to say Losi is not a great marque, but, at least in the world market, they won't ever catch Associated for collectability ( IMHO)

but each to their own, and if we all just collected Tamiya, it'd not be half as much fun !!

Stu

[Mr. ED]

just a couple things after reading through the mass of posts:

1. Things would have been a lot easier for Losi if they hadn't been from the same country as AE. Everything that was ever released in the US has always been compared to the rc10. Traxxxas started the same way but soon moved to other buyers. a smart move if you look at them today. Feel free to correct me , but I think they have not had to sell out? The fact Losi kept/keeps standing up to this pressure should be enough for every rc'er to show them some respect

2. I think the mini-T was a great new product and the first to take mini cars to real success. I know numerous companies made mini-size vehicles in the past but none of these caused such a lasting trend and follow-up from other producers. At least one truly innovative car AE made after the original rc10 would be the first TC.

3. I probably misunderstood the remark but: the production of a flat chassis with a kick-up is not done by milling the shape from a block. The layers of (woven or straight) fibers and resin are put over a mould with the shape of the chassis. Vacuum and counter-molds are used for complexer shapes.
Overall it still is a rather expensive procedure: suited for low to medium production numbers only. It was an excellent choice for a company marketing its first car and uncertain about sales numbers, but looking for race performance and looks.

4. The plastic molded tub with ribs and fins is older than the grasshopper and a big cost-saver when production numbers reach a certain level. Reinforced plastics are not a losi invention either: take any old suspension parts from an ultima or optima and you'll find it's glass reinforced nylon basically.
Combining the both to create the jrx-pro chassis was again a good choice for a company looking at increased sales and in need of differentiating its product from the main competitor

5. I too prefer the products from the flat chassis era: reasonable performance and plenty opportunity to do my own thing. But let's face it: companies build their stuff to sell to the largest market possible, and for along while the market demand was: ready-to -race out of the box at the cheapest price possible. This and the increasing efforts of the RC-car builders to get hold of the important after-market share gave the the traditional aftermarket-parts-only builders a hard time right when Losi came up.
In hard times it was logic for the aftermarket focused companies to provide only parts for the nr1 seller which still was the rc10 and not Losi.

[RETRO R/C]

Hey Melvin - Didnt take your post the wrong way at all mate - was just adding to the conversation - as others in th epast have made similar comments.......no drama's at all for me!

"Real" racing companies are very scarce on the ground now - by that I mean ones that aren't into making cookie cutter models or parts. Sad - but is fact that "the majority" of people want the easy way out all the time now - and the cheapest.

Cheers

Darryn

[Eau Rouge]

just a couple things after reading through the mass of posts:

2. ...At least one truly innovative car AE made after the original rc10 would be the first TC.

Well, by 1999, the TC market was already being dominated by HPI, Tamiya and Yokomo. I would also put the TC3 into the reactive category and not proactive. They were 4 or 5 years late to the party on that one, too.

3. I probably misunderstood the remark but: the production of a flat chassis with a kick-up is not done by milling the shape from a block. The layers of (woven or straight) fibers and resin are put over a mould with the shape of the chassis. Vacuum and counter-molds are used for complexer shapes. Overall it still is a rather expensive procedure: suited for low to medium production numbers only. It was an excellent choice for a company marketing its first car and uncertain about sales numbers, but looking for race performance and looks.

Not entirely accurate. A graphite chassis with a kick (or even a flat one) is vertically milled from a clean FLAT sheet of carbon fiber. There is no forming involved outside of the original layup of the blank sheet with the kick-bend in it. It's a straight 2-axis mill job. The only early graphite car that I can remember that had any formed graphite layup in it were the Houge Illusion drag cars. This was hyper complicated in the R/C industry in 1988.

4. The plastic molded tub with ribs and fins is older than the grasshopper and a big cost-saver when production numbers reach a certain level. Reinforced plastics are not a losi invention either: take any old suspension parts from an ultima or optima and you'll find it's glass reinforced nylon basically.

Losi really did pioneer using injection-molded graphite composites in their chassis. Yes, there were plenty of companies doing nylon injected parts (the RC10 was), but using composite graphite molded arms and chassis was light years ahead of everyone else in racing.


I prefer to think of Losi like BASF... they didn't invent off road buggies—they just made them A LOT better.

[markt311]

The tc3 was WAY late to the party, I think the YR4 was one of the first wave of touring cars. followed closely by the RS4 from HPI. The tc3 was delayed for a long time, I had mine paid for 4 months before I got it, still a pretty competitive car today in stock though
Losi may have gotten themselves in trouble with their multiple failed buyouts, Trinity was in the process of buying a 1/2 share of Losi, Then for some reason they told Ernie no thanks. I think the state of Losi now is pretty sad, more of a toy company that is only selling a racecar because they were already there before Junior left and they're so good on the track they almost had to keep them around. I will be really curious to see how a race car designed completly by their new guys will do.
Mark

[terry.sc]

Well hows about this for a reason. Losi weren't around early enough.

Look at what models are collectable and command high prices. Even small niche manufacturers from the early to mid 80s such as Marui and Hirobo are prized collectables. The original RC10 is in demand, yet no one has any interest in a B2. I know the argument that tyhe B2 is a plastic tub, but that hasn't stopped interest in Tamiyas has it.

Go back a few years and the vintage market was all about the SRBs and Tamiya 3 speeds, the really early stuff. A little later the Hotshot, Brat, Frog, Grasshopper. Now interest in the RC10 and other race buggies of the same era is kicking in. I bet Losis will attract a lot more interest in a couple of years, when the old racers that started with them will reach the age when they all get nostalgic about their youth. Give it long enough and there'll be collectors looking for original T-Maxxs.

[MelvinsArmy]

What a can of worms I've opened.

Well, the only thing we all need to know and remember is:

LOSI RULES!!!

[Eau Rouge]

Well hows about this for a reason. Losi weren't around early enough.

Terry, I think you are on to something there. Based on sheer age alone, figure that the duration of time expired between the release date of the cars and the need to collect them as historical objects is about 20-25 years on average. Tamiya has had a collector following for many years already, as has Kyosho. Follow that with the success of the RC10 and you are still probably a couple of years away from a real high point of Losi collector enthusiasm.

Honestly, that does sound like the most logical explanation so far.

[RETRO R/C]

Well hows about this for a reason. Losi weren't around early enough.

Terry, I think you are on to something there. Based on sheer age alone, figure that the duration of time expired between the release date of the cars and the need to collect them as historical objects is about 20-25 years on average. Tamiya has had a collector following for many years already, as has Kyosho. Follow that with the success of the RC10 and you are still probably a couple of years away from a real high point of Losi collector enthusiasm.

Honestly, that does sound like the most logical explanation so far.

I was saying the same thing about 5 years ago for Kyosho - Kyosho really started to kick in about 2 2.5 years ago..........Losi's time will come - but it will be a smaller market - as it will be racers (old ones) that will have the most interest.

Cheers

Darryn

[AscotConversion]

Everybody wanted a tc3 because it was the first shaft drive that worked properly. The tamiyas were basically toys and the Pred blew out drivetrain parts constantly. I can tell you I would get another 10-15 sec. of run time over my previous car (HPI Pro 2) with the same batteries. May not sound like much now, but that is a lot in the 2000 Sanyo days.

I wouldn't call Associated reactionary, but maybe more like Paul Masson, they will sell no car before it's time...

[klavy69]

Give it long enough and there'll be collectors looking for original T-Maxxs.

Cool,
Better keep that tmaxx around then...might be worth something someday
Todd

[Charlie don't surf]

Wanted to bump this thread, seeing how Anthony snagged a white pre-production chassis for cheap. Seems things really haven't changed in 4 years-

[bearrickster]

Wanted to bump this thread, seeing how Anthony snagged a white pre-production chassis for cheap. Seems things really haven't changed in 4 years-

He got his way cheaper than I got mine but I kinda like that Losi's are Cheap I can afford more cars

[Mindwarp]

Wanted to bump this thread, seeing how Anthony snagged a white pre-production chassis for cheap. Seems things really haven't changed in 4 years-

He got his way cheaper than I got mine but I kinda like that Losi's are Cheap I can afford more cars

Inexpensive...not cheap