Buggy re-designers.

[yellowdatsun]

The decline of Radio shack has been particularly saddening for me. I usually build all my own projects, fix my own things, design my own ideas, so it sucks now when I go in there and ask for a part, and they either say "no", or just stare at me like a deer in headlights. Now it's limited to just the very common builders items like switches, and the rest is cell phones.

What's odd is that they've said their decline was due to people not building things anymore, and they've had to restructure to "be with the times". Yet, they've alienated the very people they used to cater to, and I already have a cell phone company. So their transition has left me with zero reason to go in their stores anymore.

[mk-Zero]

For me, I like to take old things and make them perform better. The RC10'S are just fun to mess with, and you are only limited by your imagination. Same reason I built my bug, it's a 60 year old car that only came with a 36 horse motor, now it will demolish most anything and handles like a go-cart. Whould it have been easier to make a modern car do those things? Yes, but where's the fun in that?

As for building a modern RC car, think about the budget AE must have, and the fact that they have the best drivers in the world developing their cars with them. And the fact that they have over 30 years of experience designing and building off road rc cars. For me, messing with this on the side, I have no interest in trying to compete with that in any serious way.

[GoMachV]

This tower?
Let me know if you need 1 or 10
I can easily modify for the shorter truck shocks you run also if that's your plan. No need to have the extra row of holes

[yellowdatsun]

That's it! How did you get the design? PM me cost, and we'll talk from there.

On my car, I drilled the second line of holes myself, they weren't factory holes.

[GoMachV]

I know they weren't factory. I drew it from an original. I just listed a bunch of my work in the sales area. The towers run $18 shipped in the USA. I can mod them if you wish to have them proper length for your shocks.

[yellowdatsun]

Maybe we can do one stock, and one about 7mm shorter, to compensate for the holes I have drilled in mine.

Man, makes you wonder who else has stuff out there that someone else needs...

[GoMachV]

I try to make one of everything. Just in case haha

[yellowdatsun]

Stock, as in whatever measurement that shock tower is in the drawing you sent me, the super tall one like what's currently in my car, not stock RC10 height.

[Lowgear]

The decline of Radio shack has been particularly saddening for me. I usually build all my own projects, fix my own things, design my own ideas, so it sucks now when I go in there and ask for a part, and they either say "no", or just stare at me like a deer in headlights. Now it's limited to just the very common builders items like switches, and the rest is cell phones.

What's odd is that they've said their decline was due to people not building things anymore, and they've had to restructure to "be with the times". Yet, they've alienated the very people they used to cater to, and I already have a cell phone company. So their transition has left me with zero reason to go in their stores anymore.

I feel that the Internet is what mainly killed them. They were a retail chain that largely sold electronic components, and back before the Internet, that was the only place you could easily buy that type of product. Now due to the Internet, you have any electronic component you can think of at your fingertips.

What RadioShack should have done in my opinion is closed all of their physical locations, and changed over to a solely online entity. If they did that, they could have become what Digi-Key, Mouser, Jameco, etc... is now.

[yellowdatsun]

The decline of Radio shack has been particularly saddening for me. I usually build all my own projects, fix my own things, design my own ideas, so it sucks now when I go in there and ask for a part, and they either say "no", or just stare at me like a deer in headlights. Now it's limited to just the very common builders items like switches, and the rest is cell phones.

What's odd is that they've said their decline was due to people not building things anymore, and they've had to restructure to "be with the times". Yet, they've alienated the very people they used to cater to, and I already have a cell phone company. So their transition has left me with zero reason to go in their stores anymore.

I feel that the Internet is what mainly killed them. They were a retail chain that largely sold electronic components, and back before the Internet, that was the only place you could easily buy that type of product. Now due to the Internet, you have any electronic component you can think of at your fingertips.

What RadioShack should have done in my opinion is closed all of their physical locations, and changed over to a solely online entity. If they did that, they could have become what Digi-Key, Mouser, Jameco, etc... is now.

Well, maybe. Had they done thatm, at least they would have had the name recognition, because 99% of the general public hasn't a clue who Digui-key, Mouser, or Jameco is. BUT, for peiople like me, I like to go in, browse, pick up an item, and leave with it in hand whenever possible. I love buying over the internet, but the impatience in me want to go to a store and buy it NOW. The majority of the stuff I used to buy at radio shack, I'll either now buy at a truck stock (lights CB's, and antenna's), or go to Fry's Electronics and see what I can find. But there's a big hole left with some of the items. I don't want to take a lighted switch, figure out all of it's dimensions, and then hunt online till I find it......I want to go to a place like Radio Shack where I can just go in and match it up.


EDIT: sorry for the bad typing, I just had carpal tunnel surgery.

[Niki]

For me, I like to take old things and make them perform better. The RC10'S are just fun to mess with, and you are only limited by your imagination. Same reason I built my bug, it's a 60 year old car that only came with a 36 horse motor, now it will demolish most anything and handles like a go-cart. Whould it have been easier to make a modern car do those things? Yes, but where's the fun in that?

As for building a modern RC car, think about the budget AE must have, and the fact that they have the best drivers in the world developing their cars with them. And the fact that they have over 30 years of experience designing and building off road rc cars. For me, messing with this on the side, I have no interest in trying to compete with that in any serious way.

I underwrite every word Brian is saying here.
And think about all the bigger and smaller companies making tuning parts for modern buggies...

-N-

[RC10th]

We are all privileged to have access to all these cool things and the knowledge pool of this board. From a simple RC10 we can all build many different versions of the RC10. So to those key individuals who make ideas a reality, I thank you.

[fredswain]

Some of you guys kinda already have, but maybe you should all put together packages so people can do conversions if they so desired? Personally, I don't have the money to purchase any of this beautiful stuff at the moment, maybe next year I can do an RC10-Mid.

I have 3 different RC10 graphite mid motor chassis designs available. I'm shipping out the first run this week. I have an entire dirt oval car, the Invencer, and am working on many new things. I still don't have a webpage but I do have a facebook site called Raborn Racing Originals. The company first started in 1991 and faded away around 2000 but now we are slowly bringing things back. The biggest problem I'm finding is that things cost FAR more than they used to. In 1991, if I wanted to sell a graphite chassis, all I had to do was place an order with Composite Craft and pay them $19 and it would be on it's way. They got marked up to a suggested retail of $60 but typically sold around $49-$50 for a nice profit margin. Today you'll pay far more manufacture cost than you would the old retail price. People just don't want to pay that much when most would rather buy a car that has a setup sheet that someone else figured out for them. If it doesn't work the first time, many consider the vehicle a failure, bad mouth the company, and buy a competing product in the hopes that it works better. Offering something that people need to build and figure out how to tune or modify on their own just isn't a wide ranging strategy that works well anymore.

Machining costs have also gone way up. You used to be able to find small machine shops everywhere that had people willing to make small runs of parts for a couple of bucks each. Today it's hard to find someone that will even talk to you if you aren't some large company ready to place orders for thousands of dollars. You really need to be able to machine your own parts to stand a chance or find a way to adapt a known manufacturers parts if possible. Even then you run into the problem of finding a manufacturer who will sell directly to you. We used to buy axles and driveshafts straight from Losi by the box with no problems. Today if you wanted to purchase something from, lets say Associated, they'll send you a form to fill out asking you to list at least two other rc companies that you already purchase from so they will have references. They want to know your projected sales per year. If that number is a couple dozen, they won't even look at you. Again, it's got to be big. They will also ask for a tax id number to make sure you aren't some guy making parts out of your garage. In the 80's and 90's, many of the companies that were advertising in RCCA and selling products were just that, people making and selling their own parts. This all boils down to making things very expensive requiring lots of time and effort to put together. Profit margins are far lower when it's all said and done and sales pricing ends up higher. The unfortunate thing about the latter is that the higher the price, the less you can sell. It's a vicious circle. You yourself even mentioned not having the money to pay for anything which certainly isn't what people who are trying to make money off of these parts want to hear to get motivated.

Let's say you did want to design and sell your own car. I've been looking into it and it's not cheap. Doing the design work, building a prototype and even testing one are the easy part. Paying for tooling is insanely expensive. You can go the 3D printing route to avoid up front material costs but you'll make a buck or two per part while still having a part that costs more retail that a competitor's molded pieces. If you want to build a car that is injection molded, you'll pay thousands of dollars in tooling and I don't mean 3 or 4 thousand. $20,000+ is easy to top. Each piece coming out of the mold only costs you a dollar, maybe less so you can make several off of each one. Unfortunately you need to sell hundreds of kits just to break even and you don't know if you will or not. In order to sell that many, you've got to have a budget for advertising. You've got to give a few cars out to people you want as drivers. You've got to give a few out to magazines to review and hope they are favorable. You've got to setup a dealer and distributor network. There is a lot involved and it all takes time and costs money. Can you afford to do this? Are you going to try to do this while still holding a day job or are you going to quit your job, risk your life savings, and go full speed at this?

That basically brings us back to individuals making small runs of special parts and selling them through forums or word of mouth. That's easiest. Many of these people have the ability to do so such as being machinists with access to the machinery to do so. Some of us use 3D printing and just accept the fact that it's more for the fun of it than trying to put food on the table. A few individuals could potentially make a living at it but rich is probably something they'll never be off of it. Even X-Factory is still essentially just a couple of people in a basement and they are far more established than most.

The talent level isn't the problem.

[mk-Zero]

Everything Fred said is true.

Mold tooling you can figure is about $5k-20k per part, depending on the complexity of the part. I have first hand experience with this at work. Even if you assume you made $5 per part and the tooling was "only" $2k per part, you would still have to sell 400 sets *just to brake even*. And that's not including any development costs, marketing costs, overhead, etc.

I'll stick to making/offering cool things that the vintage crowd wants. This is an awesome community and the excitement and enthusiasm I have seen about the Ten4 is what drives me, I sure ain't getting rich off it.

[klavy69]

just accept the fact that it's more for the fun of it than trying to put food on the table.

The talent level isn't the problem.

For the most part I can sum up what Fred was saying with just a few of his words.

For most of the people that make parts on this forum its not about the money its about the love of the hobby and keeping vintage alive and kicking. And as in anything vintage it costs money to resurrect the past. I wish I could build all the ones these guys make but for the most part all I'm gonna be able to do is try to...trying to support some of these guy's projects that are supporting our hobbies is pretty much what this community is about .

Todd