Breakthrough: Replacement axles for AYK Buffalo/Bobcat!

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Breakthrough: Replacement axles for AYK Buffalo/Bobcat!

Post by Coelacanth »

After a long, hard search trying to find something--ANYTHING--to replace the thin-shafted stock axles on my buddy's Buffalo (one of which broke at the dogbone end while trying to remove that weird-ass lock-washer that practically welds itself onto the shaft over time), with all leads going to a dead end and discovering HPI mistakenly-labeled header cards and more, I *finally* tracked down some axles that are cheap, and can be made to fit with a little modification, and will permit you to use modern rear wheels on your Buffalo/Bobcat!

The worst part of the dilemma was HPI mis-labeling a product as 5 x 50mm on the header card (3 different ones I bought were all marked as 5x50) that were actually 6 x 45mm, which isn't even close...that wasted months of time before it was discovered it wasn't just mis-packaged, the package itself was incorrectly labeled. :x

Anyway, I'll update soon with pictures and full description of the recipe, but Thunder Tiger P/N PD8967 is a pair of axles that are almost the exact same length as stock Buffalo axles, but have a standard 5mm shaft with cross-pins, not the taper-fit that's so difficult to attach aftermarket wheels to.

http://shop.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&P=WR&I=LXALRR

There are some obstacles to overcome but nothing that requires major modding. You'll need to change to bearings with a 5mm I.D. but I already had plenty of those lying around. You'll need thick 12mm hexes with a 5mm hole, something between 6 and 10mm thick perhaps. You'll need to make your own cross-pins from wing wire (1.5 - 1.7mm thick) as these axles' cross-pin holes are not quite 2mm in diameter...or alternatively, you could drill out the holes to 2mm. Ideally you'll need about 1.5 to 2mm spacers with 5mm holes to keep the outer bearings in place in the hubs. All of that is easy stuff.

The bigger challenge is that the Buffalo requires wheels that have a major negative offset in order to clear the chassis. This is the opposite of most aftermarket wheels these days. This could be resolved by finding even longer axles & thicker spacers accordingly, or simply finding wheels that don't have much or any positive offset. (That means you need deep-dish style wheels, where the wheel width goes outward from the center of the wheel, not inward on the inside of the wheel.) For more explanation of offset, if you're interested, read here:

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=101

Anyway, I've found that 2.2" narrow crawler wheels typically have this kind of negative offset, and I can mount these wheels directly to the Thunder Tiger axles with only the mods aforementioned. I want to see what I can do to mount more common aftermarket wheels, so I'll update later.

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Re: Breakthrough: Replacement axles for AYK Buffalo/Bobcat!

Post by Hcp22 »

Most interesting reading and I hope your next post is coming soon!
Cheers
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Re: Breakthrough: Replacement axles for AYK Buffalo/Bobcat!

Post by Mr. ED »

http://www.hobbies4life.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TRA7175

Try these wheels: buggy look but mini truck offset

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Re: Breakthrough: Replacement axles for AYK Buffalo/Bobcat!

Post by Hcp22 »

Cheers
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Re: Breakthrough: Replacement axles for AYK Buffalo/Bobcat!

Post by Coelacanth »

Sorry everyone, hold the phones...the wheel suggestions are appreciated, but myself, I'm not a dish wheel fan. Too ho-hum generic-looking. :)

Anyway, I encountered a problem with these axles that wasn't apparent until I mounted everything up. Though I was informed that the shafts are 5mm thick, they're actually a tad narrower. Assuming they're US Standard spec instead of Metric--because they wouldn't be anything other than 4 or 5mm if they were Metric--the Thunder Tiger axles are probably 3/16" diameter. This is 4.76mm instead of 5mm and unfortunately, it results in the 5 x 9mm bearings having more play than I like. I'm a perfectionist when it comes to fit & function and I try to aim for zero slop or play with all of my builds & mods, if possible.

So, it looks like I have 2 further options; finding SAE bearings to fit properly, 3/16" x 3/8" bearings would probably work, assuming they exist...or Tamiya P/N 9808039, Frog/Brat re-re axles look promising (Mr.ED suggested these a while ago but I still haven't confirmed the exact specs yet). If I could get the total length, dogbone cup diameter and middle shaft diameter, I'd know for sure if they would work or not. I *hate* buying something without knowing the exact specs beforehand... :?

Does anybody have 3/16" x 3/8" (I.D./O.D.) bearings, by any chance?

Sorry again for jumping the gun--I just want to make this work so bad, I know I'll find a solution one way or another!
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Re: Breakthrough: Replacement axles for AYK Buffalo/Bobcat!

Post by Phin »

Does anybody have 3/16" x 3/8" (I.D./O.D.) bearings, by any chance?
I'm sure you'll be able to find plenty of people on this site that do. ;)

Avid sells them.

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Re: Breakthrough: Replacement axles for AYK Buffalo/Bobcat!

Post by Coelacanth »

Thanks Phin, I don't really want to spend money on something that might not fit the rear hubs...by my math, 3/8" bearings are about a half millimeter bigger than the stock 9mm bearings...I figure they can be shoe-horned into the Buffalo rear hubs but can't be certain.

If somebody has 4 of those they can part with, I'll find something to trade for it.

I still want to find an axle set that will work without changing out the stock Metric bearings, though.
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Re: Breakthrough: Replacement axles for AYK Buffalo/Bobcat!

Post by jwscab »

they will be a really tight fit on a 9mm bore, I'd be hesitant to force them in there.

do yourself a favor and pose the question regarding the rere frog/blackfoot rear axles in the tamiya forum. you'll probably get more guys with those parts handy to measure. I KNOW they are 5mm shafts, and I know they are more than likely long enough. the only question I can't answer is the diameter of the ball on the bone end and the cross pin OD.

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Re: Breakthrough: Replacement axles for AYK Buffalo/Bobcat!

Post by Phin »

3/16"x3/8" bearings are used in Associated wheels and Stealth transmissions so it's a common bearing.

Here's an alternative idea...the Duratrax Nitro Evader BX rear wheels have the same offset as the Thunder Tiger Phoenix BX as they both borrow alot of their design from the RC10B3...and if the Phoenix BX rear stub axles are working for you then there's a good chance that these will work for you too.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXSWW3

They use a 5mm bearing.

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Re: Breakthrough: Replacement axles for AYK Buffalo/Bobcat!

Post by Coelacanth »

Yeah...time to clear the dust & cobwebs off my TamiyaClub login and check with the experts there. If the shafts are indeed 5mm diameter, that's half the battle won right there. 8)
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Re: Breakthrough: Replacement axles for AYK Buffalo/Bobcat!

Post by Coelacanth »

Phin wrote:and if the Phoenix BX rear stub axles are working for you then there's a good chance that these will work for you too.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXSWW3

They use a 5mm bearing.
Thanks Phin; unfortunately, those axles you linked are too short by at least 4mm. I'm aiming for something that's at least 46mm (Buffalo axles are over 45mm long) and preferably something that's between 46 and 52 or so millimeters total length (or right around 2" in Standard measurements).
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Re: Breakthrough: Replacement axles for AYK Buffalo/Bobcat!

Post by Mr. ED »

TRA7172A should be more to your liking.
Image

The reason I prefer the dished ones is; it is easier to find a matching front rim, and the bead of those rims is a little different so I'd get them with the pre-glued tires.
I've seen those in a brick and mortyr shop and the tires look good to me . TRA7172A is also available with tires but nothing that suits a buggy.

About the axles: forget those frog ones: you really don't want to handrill another hole for the crosspin in the rright spot.

Here's an idea:
get JC wheels for the yokomo works, drive hubs for a yokomo 870C or works, 5mm diameter solid axle, and 5mm diamter spacers, and a pair of optima geardiff outdrive cups.
You make a flat end on one side of the axle and put the diff cup on. Put it through bearings from the inside and put the yokomo wheel on the hub. Slide the wheel over the axle from the outside and put it at the desired width. The gap between the outer bearing and hubsiyou measure and use the spacers for afterwards. Now mark where the hub starts and ends. Cut the axle to size and make a flat on the outer end for the setscrew of the yokomo hub.
Copy for the other side and done.
For the front you can use the yokomo to 2wd kyosho adapters and trim the inner bead from the 4WD front rim

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Re: Breakthrough: Replacement axles for AYK Buffalo/Bobcat!

Post by Coelacanth »

Mr. ED wrote:About the axles: forget those frog ones: you really don't want to handrill another hole for the crosspin in the rright spot.
I may not need to re-drill crosspin holes, actually...looking at these Thunder Tiger axles, the crosspin hole is in a similar location to the Frog ones in the middle of the shaft; and with axle installed, there's only about 2.5 to 3mm of space between the outer bearing surface and the crosspin hole--more than enough space to install a 12mm hex. The next minor challenge is to find a hex that's thick enough to reach from the cross-pins nearly to the end of the shaft where the threads start--approximately 10mm or more--before mounting a wheel, as that thick hex is needed to push out wheels enough that they won't rub on the chassis shock mount-plates. The Tamiya Frog 12mm hex adapters I previously used on the Marui Galaxy I resto-modded might possibly work for that.
Here's an idea: <snip>
That's a good suggestion, but more work re-doing everything than I want to do for my buddy's car. I'd probably consider that if it was my own project...but for this car, not so much. :)
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Re: Breakthrough: Replacement axles for AYK Buffalo/Bobcat!

Post by Phin »

What part of the Duratrax axle is too short?

The way I'm understanding what you're trying to do, it sounds like as long as you get the drive pin out past the bearing in the hub you can use a wheel widener from JunFac, which are attached with a barrel nut so you wouldn't really need the threads on the axle to extend past the wheel.

http://www.junfac.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=20&zenid=4679baf20d81f65b48b37a9c7f08a692


There was a member here that used these hubs to adapt wheels on a Scorpion.

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Re: Breakthrough: Replacement axles for AYK Buffalo/Bobcat!

Post by Incredible_Serious »

Coelacanth wrote:The next minor challenge is to find a hex that's thick enough to reach from the cross-pins nearly to the end of the shaft where the threads start--approximately 10mm or more--before mounting a wheel, as that thick hex is needed to push out wheels enough that they won't rub on the chassis shock mount-plates.
If it helps, most Tamiya TT01 kits come with an extra pair of wide plastic hexes, used for wide axles in the rear of some cars. The hex is about 10mm long / wide. Pics attached..... I have heaps, shame you're over there rather than here :lol:
P1090326.JPG
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