Kyosho Lazer ZX-S Prototype from Japan

[Kyosho Fan2]

Guys,

I have been lucky two be able to get my hands on two prototype team cars. One of which has not been used and one has. The very blue one has taken some of my time and I have found a new set of TRX1 shocks to match the colour of the alloy on the car.

Also the other one I have is my race car and has had a few modifications since I have been running it, and will post pics soon when I have rebuilt it and resolved the issues with it.

What do you think so far?

[Kyosho Fan2]

Well here is my other Lazer ZXS. The blue one above is basically an Evolution version. The ZXS has the Yokomo wheels and ZXR castor blocks. Still its been fun doing the rebuild. Oh yeah the shocks are prototypes, well before the ZX5 came along (or the RB typre R)

[RETRO R/C]

YUUMMM

In my opinion the original belt drive Lazer is still an excellent car to drive.

Your examples here a super sweet and obviously extremely rare!

Cheers

Darryn

[Kyosho Fan2]

I agree, I redesigned the ZX / ZXR and couldnt do much else to it, its a stunning machine, but this is one step better even though the ZXR is still up there with the best cars.

My pics dont have the front metal kick up plate mainly due to bending one (thats how quick I was going) and have had to send off the other one to get more made. I have sacrificed chassis number 114 (of 250 made) which is a one piece and I have cut out the front section and fitted it to my race car, so I can still race. Pics will be on here withing a couple of months all depending on how quick I can get some alloy extras made to strengthen it.

Cheers for the comments

[minichamps11]

What's the difference between the ZX-S and the Evolution version? I have a mint new built ZX-S with the blue front bulkhead at the front - is this the EVO version? I read somewhere that the ZX-S came out first (with the non-Kyosho shocks) and then the Evo was the later version. One of my favourite buggies. Don't think much of the dirt sealing though, but then mine's never going to be used......

[Kyosho Fan2]

Ok here goes.

The ZXS few hundred (300) that were made were using losi shocks and believe it or not but the new losi shocks now with the thread on the shock body were made in 1995-6 (I think) for this car - well ahead of the competition and time and yokomo wheel adaptors and of course wheels, the difference is that as well as the castor blocks front and rear from the ZX/ZXR. Oh yeah and the one piece carbon fibre chassis, which has the kick up plate built in and is unbreakable, but I hated its like the YZ10 chassis layout where you have to glue and tie the servo in to get it to steer, which is stupid. I cut the CF kick up plate off the chassis and redrilled and filed it and fitted the ZXS evo chassis which is a three part chassis and makes the car much better to work with.

Oh yeah the shocks in the piccy above are prototypes that I took off my race car and put on the ZXS version, they are nice though, and seem a much better build than the ZX5 shocks.

The other two hundred were ZXS Evolution with the blue kick up like yours, and three part chassis and the rear hubs are slightly better than the ZX5 with the other two added holes to raise or lower the car, as well as a different front hub design and wicked UJs which look like MIP rebuilds, and are now on the ZX5. Its funny that the ZX5 uses parts from a car built in 95-96.

The blue proto type (like my two, one isnt pictured) has a slightly different hyper clutch and slipper system, better diffs which are slimmer, smoother and lighter, as well as slight insignicficant changes on the front gear box and rear as well as the chassis battery layout. It also has blue hyper clutch unit as well as the motor plate and motor plate holder, as well as wishbone pivot braces all blue as well. I am unsure how many team kits were given out in Japan but less than 20 most probably worldwide, so is even rarer that the 500. I am unsure exactly when this was first brought out, but i am guess late 93 early 94.

Did I make sense.

[minichamps11]

Yeah, that kinda made sense

I don't see anything funny about Kyosho using 1990's UJ's on the ZX-5 - they must have paid for the tooling so it makes good economic sense. Plus how far has UJ / CVD design advanced in the last 15 years? Not at all. Losi still use shocks, driveshafts, diff's etc. from the 90's - if it's not broken, don't fix it.

I raced a ZX-5 for a few seasons when it first came out and have to say that I'm not a fan of the fiddly 3 piece shocks. They leaked from the bottom seals, and in cold weather I found that turning the threaded spring adjusters often undid the shock cap by accident & caused it to leak from the top as well.

The Lazer SP however, is an awesome car. Kyosho seem to have learnt from the ZX-5, probably because Gil. Jr's expertise is being put to good use . The shocks are now great, the handling is up there with the best and spares are cheap, however it does suffer from having a plastic chassis. I don't know or care if it makes any performance difference, but purely from a sales point of view, fellow racers see a $320 B44 with C/F or a $310 ZX-5 SP and it looks like a toy by comparison.

I run a Yokomo BX at present but am sorely tempted by the SP - it has more steering, stablity, and was generally more predictable everywhere on the track. Bad thing is that I'm not keen on the way shaft drive cars behave in the air over large jumps, but that's something you can learn to drive round. And before anyone starts a "belt versus shaft" discussion, that's the only disadvantage I've noticed with shaft. (Oh yeah, it's harder to come up with a decent adjustable one-way with a shaft design, but TTech managed something that was just about acceptable )

[minichamps11]

Another thing whilst I'm in rant mode; why would anyone in their right mind use those terrible Yokomo wheels on a car. Not only do they increase rotating mass, but having to undo four screws per wheel was the biggest pain-in-the-butt when you'd chosen the wrong tyres 3 minutes before your race started

Was it something to do with Yokomo's 2.2" tyres?

[Kyosho Fan2]

I agree, yet the ZXRR or MK2 version still never used them and that was a bit daft, as they are a better design, so why did they take so long to get it on the market.

Hehe I was the only one who had the Kyosho RB Type R in the UK and those shocks I didnt like at all and the weak points just stand out but I built them and sold them to Russell Williams. they were without the threaded outside bodies for the springs and the plastic tops are way to fragile. Why cant they have one whole cap like the option house shocks. Thats my rant.

Yes its coming together, but Gill is better with belts so lets hope the Lazer will be back with belts as thats what they are better with. I am not saying that the ZX5 is rubbish, but its not up there with the predecessors, and if you look at the ZX, ZXR,ZXRR, ZXS the development line is noticeable and every car is a better up to the ZXS which is stunning to drive, but I hate to say it but the ZX5 has gone backwards. Yes Gill has dabbled and made it into a really good racer, but its still not as good yet. I hope a belt car is looming, and when it does it doesnt have a plastic chassis.

I honestly would advise against buying the ZX5 SP, as its only had a facelift and isnt still as good as the competition. I personally would spend the same money and get the Tamiya 501X as its a stunner in the air and is built like a tank (tamiya have woken up eventually). Ttech is a company I would seriously advise against, unless you have very deep pockets and like fixing it. The car is still prone to damages, even though they have beefed it up tremendously compared to Kevin Moores National winning car. Its fragile no matter how you look at it and the main fault is the gearbox, its rubbish.

I agree, it looked good but that was all just looks. However it makes sense as I can actually widen the front on the ZXS with the ZXRR castor blocks and that makes it a bit special, as its slightly wider than the ZXRR on the front which means more stable. However you havent noticed, but you can unscrew the wheel nut instead and take the whole unit off as the four screws go into the wheel hub which is bolted onto the uj. Yes I didnt like the Yokomo design, as its a pain to change wheels quickly, if the wheel hub is stuck on big time, and I have been lucky that in practice at big events that having a quick change like the ZXRR to dial the car works, i did three chnages in five mins without problems and set the car up perfectly. Possibly something to do with Yokomo using larger diameter wheels at the worlds and winning it, so maybe.

Your points are really good so keep em coming. Your not ranting as you are making perfect sense and is quite nice to hear from someone who has these ideas.

[minichamps11]

Kyoshofan, please can you edit that last post to sort it out?

Good luck with running a Tamiya in the UK. I'm having problems getting spares for the BX and that's an officially supported UK car....you'll need a second 501X car for spares to race it weekly.

The SP is doing really well in the USA. The ZX-5 wasn't a backwards step (OK, the shocks were), more of a step in a new direction which will always cause teething problems. The early cars broke the front pivot brace & tower mounts, but then my ZX-R always broke the front half of the gearbox where the tower mounted and Kyosho failed to make improvements, so this time round they're listening and modifying components. At least the ZX-5 is on the money in terms of weight - my new built ZX-RR comes in at a massive 1870g loaded

I struggle to see how you can compare the "success" of the ZX-R/RR etc against the ZX-5. The early cars were raced when Kyosho had a long standing & experienced off-road race team; the ZX-5 has been around for a mere 2 years and Kyosho are still building up their off-road team. Besides, competition has also moved on so no direct comparison can be made. I guess you could look at World championship results but it needs to be a like-for like number of ZX-5 entries versus ZX-R for it to make any statistical sense... and then it's still up for debate.
Just because Kyosho historically made belt drive cars, doesn't mean that the next Lazer needs to be belt driven to be any good. You seem to be forgetting a very successful series of 1/8th scale shaft drive cars they've made.....

[Kyosho Fan2]

I dont understand why that didnt post properly earlier, gutted.

Well I am surprised that you didnt get the upgrades for the ZXR front end and when I did i was unfortunate to have a head on with Dave Belstens YZ10 and we were both using 10 doubles and going flat out when he jumped the track and hit me, I wripped his beefy wishbone off and broke his shock tower and a few other items including the tie rod which snapped. My ZXR only had a few scratches and I only ever broke one gear box on the front and not much else in the ten years I raced with it (89 to 99 and that include 3 clubs a week as well). Ok the rear shock mount I broke as well as Jamie Booth at the same place at the British Grand Prix after the Basildon worlds, and that was a surprise for both of us.

If you actually had all the cars lined up Zx/ZXr mk1/ZXR mk2/ZXRR/ZXS you can see the development and the strengths that have been added. Ok in standard form it was heavy but with the CF it was on the limit, well for me it was. Still your points are good.

The ZXR has won the euros and nats, and various other big world wide events, but ok now the SP is an improvement and may well be getting better, but the quality on the ZX5 was weak and rubbish which is why Kyosho are still in the dogs house with a lot of people.

However you also have to understand that the ZXS was being redesigned again, and was a better design, much better but for some silly reason they stopped halfway through the development and took the chassis design and put the shaft drive design on it.

It was a last minute idea as the rest of the manufacturers were going the shaft route. The design was not created with the proper development and that is why no one (kyosho fans anyway) like the car. I have the prototype cars pics with the chassis if you dont believe me and this information came directly from Kyosho Japan. But the past is exactly that, the past. Anyway at least now Gill can put some magic in the designs and hope that Mark can do his magic as well. Ok maybe this might be what Kyosho needs right now and hope they can come out much stronger. I do admit that the ZX5 SP does look good and I have a funny feeling a few more changes are going to happen and then we may get a shock, lets hope it will happen.

Nitro is a different field, but if Kyosho can design a worlds dominating machine then why cant they design a great 1/10th scale as well. The mind boggles but I would like to see it happen. The nitro 1/8th is a fantastic design. One day I may say the same about the electric class again.

Anyway my mate is running a Tamiya and the first two events he raced it only a ball joint popped (RPM ones needed) and a fault with the shocks, so maybe Associated shocks needed. still four years out he made 2nd and would have won if it didnt pop. I cant see that I could break the chassis or gear boxes, yes maybe a few belts are needed as well as gears, but the hubs i can get in alloy form for less than the plastic ones, and the front and rear gear box covers (which keep the dirt out). Its a well thought out design and unlike tamiyas other cars it wont break on its first outing. Still spares are easily located from Japan, and I have a lot of contacts so not a problem. Yokomo are like associated at the moment, CML are unable to get the products as their suppliers hold back on their orders. Now CML are a really gr8, and its a pity the supplier lets them down. Thank god Helgar racing or what ever they are called nowadays, do not deal with associated or Yokomo as they lost a lot of business due to them not supplying the full products, a very badly run business. Thats my two bits worth. But cheers on the advice on the Tamiya, any good setups you could recommend?

[minichamps11]

Sorry Kyoshofan, can't help with the 501X as I've never run one. The racers I know who ran them last year have all swapped to B44's & D4's because they got fed up of having to internationally mail order spares with all the associated delays, taxes etc. You could try Jimmy "Oople" as I believe he ran one all last year.

Back to the Yokomo wheels on your Lazer - were these standard Kyosho factory fit? I do realise it's possible to undo the centre nut to change wheels, but that means you need very expensive alloy adaptors for each set of wheels you might want to fit in a hurry (for example if it pours down with rain minutes before your heat is due to start, as happened to me last year at the Nationals, and the year before that.... )

I still don't understand the point of bolting a huge heavy lump of alloy to each axle when Losi & Associated wheels managed just fine with a very light roll-pin and a moulded slot in the wheel. Rotational mass saps more energy from cells than the equivalent mass on the chassis.

[Kyosho Fan2]

Yes I understand where you are coming from, but you need to realise this car was released in 95, and was being used before that (93) and made the A mains at the worlds 95 (I think, two cars). It was a design at that time that was only produced for 300 people. It was a design phase Kyosho were going thru, and lets face it, is probably the best belt design out there, and it was designed in 92. It was a good design that did have a few points that were are pain such as the wheels, but there was a reason as to why it was done. It widened the front a fraction more than the ZXR and because of that it made the car unbeliveable stable.

Yes I didnt like the design either, but the car went up a notch from that to the ZXS evo (the blue one). The one i posted here has a few items that are different from the 200 of these that were made, such as blue all over (only maybe 20 of these were made for the team drivers, and the diffs, layshaft, slipper, chassis, shock mounts are slightly different), and its more developed and trialed. The front castor block is a new design from the ZX/ZXR design as well as the ujs (mine are protos as well) which were tested and other team members such as Rick in the US when he was winning the big events for them. Also the blue shocks on the ZXS with the Yokomo wheels are prototype as well, some of the first ever made in that design. In fact they are better made than the new ones out now. The wheels like the ZXR were simpler, and if there was damo then it wasnt easy, and you know that as well. I hated the design on the wheels, but the goods out weighed the bad, well for a year any way.