whats going to happen to our hobby??

[longboardnj]

noone can compare to traxxas,stampede,rustler,and bandit $150 waterproof, fast, 12turn 550, rtr rcs. for bang for your buck i feel like there the best deal and the only rcs people getting into the hobby are buying..


Which brings me back to the question, "How many of those will a typical shop have to sell a WEEK to keep the doors open??"

this is why im scared the shops will all go out of business.. i cant afford to buy from my local hobby shops.. look at tower hobbies. there prices are say about $20 cheaper then my l.h.s for some cars.. shipping on parts is only $5 and a car is $10. but then tower will save you at least another $10-$30 depending on there specials and what you spend..then to top it all off i dont need to pay the 7%nj sales tax

I even heard there is a message board devoted entirely to the vintage RC10.

and nice clod pic... looks like you got at least $1000 in that thing.. i say.. money well spent

[RER40]

this is why im scared the shops will all go out of business.. i cant afford to buy from my local hobby shops.. look at tower hobbies. there prices are say about $20 cheaper then my l.h.s for some cars.. shipping on parts is only $5 and a car is $10. but then tower will save you at least another $10-$30 depending on there specials and what you spend..then to top it all off i dont need to pay the 7%nj sales tax

It used to be that "the manufacturers" used to protect the LHS's by demanding things be sold at MSRP. So Tower, Horizon, etc., had to stick by those rules to keep selling those products.

What it also did was create demand for out-of-production pieces, because (say) Tower could buy out Losi or AE's old stock of 10T's or XX-T's when the manufacturers came out with the T4 or XXX-T... and this allowed the new guy a chance to get into the hobby for cheap... it was a WIN-WIN-WIN situation (Losi got rid of their old stuff, Tower turned a profit by buying and selling them at at discount, and a new guy saved a few bucks).
When was the last time you saw any such deal?

Then the manufacturers started selling off, some to make a fast buck and others to get out while the iron was hot, and now companies that were once wholesalers are now retailers AND wholesalers - because they sell to hobby shops AND consumers. The current market is so skewed out of shape it'll likely never recover.

The LHS has about as much chance of surviving the current environment as you do selling sunscreen in Scandanavia.

[MelvinsArmy]

As far as the Internet goes, it's just because it is the Internet and the nature of the 'Net --
there's a lot of talking, a lot of posturing, a lot of shelf-queening, but little racing.......

As I've said before, before there was racing there wasn't a "hobby" - and without racing there will be NO hobby.
I could be wrong, and I hope I am, but I doubt it.


P.S. Cool truck, but how many of those parts would have been developed without MT RACING?

You've been visiting the wrong sites then. Go check out what some of those guys do on scale4x4rc.org. They make insane trucks, spend hundreds of hours making custom machines, then they go drive them all over the place, in streams, wherever they can take them. Go to the vintage nats and watch bngiles race his "basher" Frog around the track as fast as a modified RC10. Yes, there are plenty of shelf queens, but there are also plenty of serious competitors.

There was a hobby before there was racing. You have to have a vehicle before you can have a track. You don't build Daytona and then start a company called Ford. There will always be a r/c hobby, if it's on the track or not. I don't think racing has ever been responsible for the biggest percentage of r/c consumers, I don't think it ever will be.

Hardly any of the parts on this truck were developed for racing, it's based on a Clodbuster, the ultimate basher. The only parts developed for racing would be the TTR CVD's and ball diffs (both totally unnecessary for what I'm using it for) and Trinity motors. I don't think anybody is racing a steel tube John Boyer chassis, although I could be wrong. Nobody would race JPS gear boxes, and the shocks are from a Revo. I've never seen aluminum wheels on a racer. Most race Clods don't use cantilever suspension like on my truck either. Yes, it performs much, much better than a stock Clod, but it weighs about twice as much as a race truck, so it would not be competitive on the track.

[RER40]

Go to the vintage nats and watch bngiles race his "basher" Frog around the track as fast as a modified RC10. Yes, there are plenty of shelf queens, but there are also plenty of serious competitors.

I was around when the first Goldtubs hit the track --- and literally overnight the Frogs got retired. Sure there was a couple of guys that continued to campaign them, and dropped a main each succeeding month, until their full-race versions languished in the F-main (we used to call it the Frog-Main because it was full of 'em )

Hardly any of the parts on this truck were developed for racing, it's based on a Clodbuster, the ultimate basher. The only parts developed for racing would be the TTR CVD's and ball diffs (both totally unnecessary for what I'm using it for) and Trinity motors. I don't think anybody is racing a steel tube John Boyer chassis, although I could be wrong. Nobody would race JPS gear boxes, and the shocks are from a Revo. I've never seen aluminum wheels on a racer. Most race Clods don't use cantilever suspension like on my truck either. Yes, it performs much, much better than a stock Clod, but it weighs about twice as much as a race truck, so it would not be competitive on the track.

I was also around when the Clod came out -- and out of the box it was all but the biggest, most complicated build, POS in the history of RC. Everyone was laughing wondering if it was going to be the King of Plastic's (Tamiya) downfall. All of the upgrade parts were either designed to keep it from self-exploding and/or racing/truck-pulling (which was about all they were used for initially). There's a healthy contingent that compete each year at the IMTRA (sp?) Worlds each year, and they use all sorts of goodies,
Great basher, sure, once you replace just about everything.

There was a hobby before there was racing. You have to have a vehicle before you can have a track. You don't build Daytona and then start a company called Ford. There will always be a r/c hobby, if it's on the track or not. I don't think racing has ever been responsible for the biggest percentage of r/c consumers, I don't think it ever will be.

RC as a hobby came directly from the early 1/8th scale gas cars....... i.e. racing.
RC as a basher pursuit came directly from RadioShack.
Electric RC as a hobby came first from the early Tamiya cars, that weren't very durable or racable (without a lot of help from HotTrick and CRP) and without parts to make them raceworthy there would have been no reason for a hobby ---
--- but the hobby really jumped to the forefront in this country after Associated
got into the game with the first RC12e's and the Goldtub RC10.....

I can't say for sure about Kyosho, but I feel pretty confident that I can state for a fact that if it wasn't for RACING --
Associated Engineering, and definately Team Losi would never have been entities in the hobby.

..... and I don't recall a Frog ever making the podium at the World or the Nats.

[Brandon G]

A Frog made the podium at the Vnats, first place as a matter of fact.

[MelvinsArmy]

Okay, so now we are aguing just to argue and I'm starting to get tired of it. Bngile's Frog was raced in the "entry level" class and smoked the competition. Had he raced it in the buggy class, he would have beat me and my RC10, and I placed dead center in the buggy class that weekend, middle of the b-main. It was very lightly modified and totally dialed, and he's a very good driver.

The Clod was never thought of as a POS by anyone. Except maybe the weird little land that you come from. If it had been thought of that way, it wouldn't have become the longest continuously produced r/c kit in history. Period. It's been on the market for 22 years and it is still readily available in the exact same form as it was when it first was introduced. (sorry, I don't count changing the color of a few parts as an evolution) The only weak spot on a Clod is the center of it's plastic chassis, which can be reinforced by $12 piece of aluminum made by ESP that was one of the very first aftermarket parts made for the truck and is still available to this day. The truck was never intended to be used as a race truck. Never. There isn't a single part of the truck with any racing pedigree. Yes, people have taken the axles and wheels and made them into race trucks. Ask Halgar about how much you need to modify a Clod to make it a great basher. (if you're not familiar, he would tell you that it needs very little modification, at least from the aftermarket world)

R/C as a hobby owes much of existence to Tamiya and it's plastic cars. Not durable? My Fox took much more of a beating than my Jrx2 did. Or any RC10 I owned. I rarely broke anything on my Fox, or on a stock Clod. I don't think I ever broke a part racing a Mini Cooper. Sorry, there are no Hot Trick parts that would make my Fox perform any better than it did in stock form.

Of course you don't recall a Frog making the podium at the Nats or Worlds. That's like saying you never heard a Model T win the Daytona 500. By the time those events were happening, that car was obsolete. If it wasn't for those early Tamiya's, Cox's and Kyosho's, there would never have been an RC10 or a Losi. People were racing those cars, and that's why the later cars were developed, to improve on the performance of the "basher" or "plastic" cars as you put it. I don't think Radio Shack was making r/c cars before Tamiya was. Although, I'd be happy to see you prove me wrong.

btw, what are AE and Losis made of now? Plastic. If you want to talk about breaking parts, go ahead and put some carbon arms on those cars.

[RER40]

Okay, so now we are aguing just to argue and I'm starting to get tired of it.

Hate to be the one to call you on it, but it wasn't an argument until you turned it into one.
(I had my opinion and stated it, you called me on my opinion instead of just stating your own and off we went)


Either way, I'm done with the discussion as it strayed so from it's intended topic =
"whats going to happen to our hobby??"

[Brandon G]

Good.




Bye.

[longboardnj]

The only weak spot on a Clod is the center of it's plastic chassis, which can be reinforced by $12 piece of aluminum made by ESP

no need to any more. the super clod comes reinforced ..i have 1 .just add bearings and you have a super cool tuff truck.. as far as the frog.. the frog was my first rc and i think there great..even though my frog spent most of its life in a parts box.that was kinda my fault..id jump every thing too high. you can only jump frog chassis cars so high before the battery holder breaks off ..that and the old style trans stop me from running the frog the same big jump tracks/places i run my t4 ..id like to see vintage rc nats .i think the rerelease frog would do good . i bet the track is set up for vintage cars(the kind of track i like ,no huge car breaking jumps).like vintage dirt bike racing..they have vintage style tracks..they would not put a 1978 yz125 on a supercross track of today

[MelvinsArmy]

Okay, so now we are aguing just to argue and I'm starting to get tired of it.

Hate to be the one to call you on it, but it wasn't an argument until you turned it into one.
(I had my opinion and stated it, you called me on my opinion instead of just stating your own and off we went)


Either way, I'm done with the discussion as it strayed so from it's intended topic =
"whats going to happen to our hobby??"

I don't think I would call that calling me out. I disagreed with your post and we got in to a round and round argument about the importance of racing in the hobby. You wrongly think that racing is the single most important part of this hobby, and you go on to make grand blanket statements as to the origins of r/c, then I rebuttle (debunk it) with my point of view and you move on to the next grand generalized statement. If you're going to make statements like you have in this thread, at least back them up when you are called out on them instead of going off on another know it all tangent. This topic has not strayed from it's original intended topic at all, I'd say it's right on. If we can't figure out where the hobby has been and what is going on right now, it is pointless to discuss it's future.


longboard, that's cool, I didn't know they reinforced the Super Clod. Yeah, you should try to make it up to the vintage nats this year, it's a total blast. bngiles' re-release Frog went around the track like it was on rails.

[natedog]

That frog was pretty amazing, I probably could have done better with the wild one if I wasn't afraid of breaking it , or running a stick radio, or old batteries but those are just excuses. I bought an fx10 to run this year, only 40 dollars , if its in half by the end of the a-main I don't care

[scr8p]

That frog was pretty amazing

yes it was, but he's going down this year at the hands of my sears super lobo. i got a fresh 9 volt for the controller and 8 super duper awesome AA's for the car.

[RER40]

I don't think I would call that calling me out. I disagreed with your post and we got in to a round and round argument about the importance of racing in the hobby. You wrongly think that racing is the single most important part of this hobby, and you go on to make grand blanket statements as to the origins of r/c, then I rebuttle (debunk it) with my point of view and you move on to the next grand generalized statement. If you're going to make statements like you have in this thread, at least back them up when you are called out on them instead of going off on another know it all tangent. This topic has not strayed from it's original intended topic at all, I'd say it's right on. If we can't figure out where the hobby has been and what is going on right now, it is pointless to discuss it's future.

Sure it was, that was it exactly.
You differed with my opinion (something I thought we were allowed to have on this forum), and called it out by quoting it and saying how you disagreed with it. Then after we went back and forth, an obvious difference of opinion, you got all pissy about and said twice how tired you were of it and the arguing.........the argument YOU started.

You can disagree with someone's opinon, but saying my own opinion was "wrong" by countering it with your own "blanket statements" that were based on about as much fact as the Kennedy Assasination Conspiracy was flat out BS!!

Frankly, you need to get your act together - if you're going to tell me one day not to argue, don't start the arguments yourself. State your opinion and move on. I understand you're one of the site administrators, but throwing your weight around like you did here is just a bullying attitude.


As far as the thread topic goes - I stated it before and I'll say it again, this hobby wouldn't have gone through the growth and success its had without racing - plain and simple, period. This hobby had no growth before racing ruled, and it's continued to flounder as racing has fallen by the wayside.

[longboardnj]

he's going down this year at the hands of my sears super lobo. i got a fresh 9 volt for the controller and 8 super duper awesome AA's for the car.

lobos are one of the best things sears ever sold....my cousins had the full size 7.2 buggies (they gave them to me years ago but they broke and went to the junkyard) i had the 7.2 truck,it took alot of beatings.i glued thumbtacks to the big front bumper so anything that got in its way got a little extra damage

[MelvinsArmy]

Frankly, you need to get your act together - if you're going to tell me one day not to argue, don't start the arguments yourself. State your opinion and move on. I understand you're one of the site administrators, but throwing your weight around like you did here is just a bullying attitude.


As far as the thread topic goes - I stated it before and I'll say it again, this hobby wouldn't have gone through the growth and success its had without racing - plain and simple, period. This hobby had no growth before racing ruled, and it's continued to flounder as racing has fallen by the wayside.

Dear newbie,

Let me make one thing clear. I am the only reason you are still a member of this message board. Ask around, I am known for having strong opinions, but I think I am also known for being very fair and understanding. Never once have I used my power as an admin as weight to push other people around. Unless you count the time I banned a member for doing something incredibly immoral to another member. And even he was given multiple chances to right what he had wronged. I've never used my position to bully anyone, including you. Disagreeing with and calling bs on your opinions is not bullying.

Now I'm going to throw my weight around, so listen well. Take it down a notch with the god-like opinions. I suggest going back to the start of this thread and reading it again from start to finish. Then reading the rest of the posts you've made on this board. You have an incredible knack for coming off as an arrogant know it all, who instead of backing up his grand statements, prefers to go off on another grand tangent. I love a good debate. However, I hate a hit and run, which is what you do. As I just stated, I am the reason you are still a member here. We (the admin) have gotten multiple complaints about you and your high and mighty attitude. As I've stated earlier, we are open to all opinions and points of view. We have (or had) a nice peaceful board going with many friendly debates among friends up until now. We aim to keep it that way. We will keep it that way. Consider this the line in the sand. You just lost your last vote among the powers that be. I suggest that you sit back and assess the situation and learn to play well with others.