RC10B4.2 things to think about

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Re: RC10B4.2 things to think about

Post by Orange »

LOL... I am still thinking about the super satan extreme traction from Cactus when we were trying to get any rotation possible. :mrgreen:
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Re: RC10B4.2 things to think about

Post by kaiser »

Orange wrote:LOL... I am still thinking about the super satan extreme traction from Cactus when we were trying to get any rotation possible. :mrgreen:
i bet a shorty plastic chassis would have helped with rotation.

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Re: RC10B4.2 things to think about

Post by Orange »

I don't think rotation was possible on that track. Just imagine it like this. a fresh offroad track that gets I nice new layer of asphalt on the surface and not like dirty asphalt like what would be in front of your house, this would be like blown and prepped like a paved onroad surface. That is the best way I can describe the traction we had. Wheelies were on command even in 17.5 classes.
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Re: RC10B4.2 things to think about

Post by kaiser »

everyone running slicks?

personally i can't stand those tracks.

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Re: RC10B4.2 things to think about

Post by Orange »

Oddly, didn't see any slicks.
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Re: RC10B4.2 things to think about

Post by Charlie don't surf »

kaiser wrote:everyone running slicks?

personally i can't stand those tracks.
the local track I ran on was 2 laps faster with slicks, of course you didn't have to run them...but they were 2 laps faster, and never wore out- just saying..

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Re: RC10B4.2 things to think about

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Re: RC10B4.2 things to think about

Post by Orange »

Charlie don't surf wrote:
kaiser wrote:everyone running slicks?

personally i can't stand those tracks.
the local track I ran on was 2 laps faster with slicks, of course you didn't have to run them...but they were 2 laps faster, and never wore out- just saying..
I personally will never run slicks. Bad for the hobby IMO. If I'm 2 laps slower because of it, then so be it. I won't be that guy.

Just sayin, :mrgreen:
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Re: RC10B4.2 things to think about

Post by Charlie don't surf »

Orange wrote:
Charlie don't surf wrote:
kaiser wrote:everyone running slicks?

personally i can't stand those tracks.
the local track I ran on was 2 laps faster with slicks, of course you didn't have to run them...but they were 2 laps faster, and never wore out- just saying..
I personally will never run slicks. Bad for the hobby IMO. If I'm 2 laps slower because of it, then so be it. I won't be that guy.

Just sayin, :mrgreen:
why do you feel that they are bad for the hobby?

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Re: RC10B4.2 things to think about

Post by littleVETTE »

Orange wrote:I don't think rotation was possible on that track. Just imagine it like this. a fresh offroad track that gets I nice new layer of asphalt on the surface and not like dirty asphalt like what would be in front of your house, this would be like blown and prepped like a paved onroad surface. That is the best way I can describe the traction we had. Wheelies were on command even in 17.5 classes.
don't forget the bags and bags of sugar sean. never seen anything like it.

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Re: RC10B4.2 things to think about

Post by Orange »

I have a few reasons... I can go on probably with a lot more, but these are the main reasons. :)

My main reason is probably because I owned a hobby shop that needed sales to survive. People run slicks and when the foam wears out, people just re-foam them. No tire sales, no wheel sales. That is a big portion of sales at a hobby shop. Especially one that has a track. Many people don't really realize it right now, but life would suck without the local hobby shop. Internet order is fine and dandy and all, but I know for me, I always need something sooner than what I can order on the internet. I personally think our hobby goes into heavy darkness if hobby shops were no longer around.

Another reason has to go hand in hand with that ^^. Lets just assume every track all over the country decided that slicks was the tire of choice. Tire companies would no longer develop treaded tires. But instead we would see them come out with slicks and now compounds would be the new tread... We would then all run slicks, and there would be 25 different compounds and 30 different foams. Also all the magic potion tire sauces that are going to come out of the woodwork and all the health/fire/safety hazzards that are going to be associated with that.

It takes out pretty much the entire car setup knowledge. Right now with a car setup for treaded tires what do you think the percentage for tire setup has for a car? I will throw a number out there but it may vary by the driver. Lets say tires are 70% of setup... Add slicks to that and that number goes up. I personally think that setup should always be a part of the game. I also think that was part of the reason that Touring Cars replaced pan cars in the onroad scene. People like to tinker with stuff and there was a lot more to tinker with touring cars.

There are certain elements of racing that we need to have to relate to 1:1 racing and setup is also a part of that. Take that part out of the game and I think that devalues our racing. Same goes for appearance. Our racing thrives on what people relate to full scale racing and we need that element to draw new people into our little hobby. I'm pretty sure I have never seen slicks run on a full scale offroad race car. Sure the argument can also be made about our bodies and wings and I could go on about that as well. Thats a whole another subject. Short Course is a good example of this. It came into our scene because of heavy promotion of it in full scale. New people were drawn to it because they could relate it with something full scale. I can think of many people that were already heavily involved with RC racing including myself that didn't like them at first, but accepted them because it gave new life to our racing.

And they are a pain in the ass to make... Can you just imagine the new guy coming in to check out racing, then seeing a guy at his pit table with a dremel and tire dust all over him? Instant question in the making. "Why do you do that?" Guy with a black face, black shirt, black pants, black pit table looks at them and says "You have to do this to go faster".... I don't know about you, but if I'm new and seeing that? I'm out. I stopped racing nitro because I hated being smelly and dirty.
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Re: RC10B4.2 things to think about

Post by Charlie don't surf »

I figured it had a reasonable amount to do with tire sales, and I do understand that. I can't exactly agree with the lack of setup idea though, as slicks (or super-tack track management/ie-sugar-water) create a way above average grip coefficient; the kind of grip that distorts chassis and arms via torque and pulls ball cups off the stud in corners. Regardless of the tire, this does change the setup for any competitive racer. A treaded or spiked tire can be applied in the exact same manner as traction compound (widely used on treaded and slicks) effects the tire dynamics on the track with more or less grip in different sections and the "give and take" of setup to maximize your driving style and car setup to the portions of the track that you are strongest on. The main advantage to slicks where I ran them was a consistent car all through the run, instead of starting out skating...then settling in....then slicking off all in the same run, as if setup, timing sections, 180* corners, elevation changes and quad...then double...then quading a section wasn't enough to do successfully, add the increasing/stable/decreasing traction dynamic to it during a 5 or 10min run and really see how little you can do-

Lastly, I purchased for my 2wd buggy for one racing season (tires)
1) AKA Rebar fronts x 4 RED (one set with JC and-1 foams, one with PL CC)
2) AKA Rebar fronts x 4 ORANGE (one with JC and-1 foams, one with AKA CC)
3) HB Fullshot Fronts x 4 PINK (one with JC and-1 foam, one with stock)
4) JC Barcode fronts x 4 BLUE (one JC and-1 foam, one PL CC)
5) JC Barcode fronts x 4 GREEN (one JC and-1, one HB stock)
6) JC Barcode 4wd fr x 2 BLUE (JC and-1 foam)
7) JC Barcode 4wd fr x 2 Green (JC and-1 foam)
8) PL Suburb fronts x 4 M3 (stock PL and PL CC)
9) PL Suburb 4WD fr x 4 M4 (AKA CC and PL CC)
10) AKA Rebar rear x 4 RED (JC and-1 and AKA CC)
11) AKA Rebar rear x 4 ORANGE (JC and-1 and AKA CC)
12) HB Fullshot rear x 4 PINK (JC and-1 and PL CC)
13) PL Suburb rear x 6 M3 (AKA CC, PL CC, JC and-1)
14) PL Suburb rear x 6 M4 (AKA CC, PL CC, JC and-1)
15) JC Barcode V1 x 4 GREEN (JC and-1, AKA CC)
16) JC Barcode V2 x 4 GREEN (JC and-1, AKA CC)
17) JC DD's x 6 Green (JC And-1)

I think that about does it by memory :lol: All these tire were slicked off- various tires and or manufacture's compounds combined with different foams all made for the exact same type of scenario you would play out if the tires still had all the tread- the "best" combo if the track wasn't as moist as usual was the JC DD with the and-1 insert with the HB fullshot front with the stock insert and no traction compound on the front. If the track was really moist, then it was the PL Scrub's 4wd M3 front with AKA CC foam and JC Barcode V1 Green ( both doped with diesel fuel) rear with either AKA CC or JC and-1 depending on which rear wing I was running (since it's application changed the large tabletop)

Not really that different IMO

BTW...not trying to argue, still coming out there to spank you on the track one day B)

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Re: RC10B4.2 things to think about

Post by Orange »

I can see that point and as I was writing out my post, I knew that would be your argument. And I may have been off a little about tire sales... But the element of attraction to new people has to be equally as important. We must always attract new people... I always found it interesting the amount of racing style kits I sold over the years to people that I never saw at the race track, or they would come see it and then never come back again.

Our hobby thrives on the recognition of 1:1 racing. I personally think that is very important to keeping this hobby going. Sure wings, bodies, chassis, look different. But for a racing fan, the people that are best suited to draw into this hobby, will need certain elements that will attract them to our sport. People associate slicks to racing cars on asphalt, not dirt and the gap between the two types of fans is huge. How many times have you heard someone say "Dirt is for racing and asphalt is to get there" Or vice versa.

Also, I was not a fan of the sugar. I actually tried to talk them out of it. I would not have done it and traction was never a problem at any cactus race before including the two that I ran. Its offroad and with that comes a lack of traction.

AND Bring it... Go ahead and guage my experience off my recent big race results as that is the guy you will be racing against when you come out here. Trust me, if I want to beat someone, I will be at the track every day practicing for as long as it takes to make it happen. :mrgreen:
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Re: RC10B4.2 things to think about

Post by Charlie don't surf »

I would prefer (over anything) a surface where goosebumps, calibers or such were used, with a natural dirt, or clay or soil was the surface. I know (from Detroit) that it doesn't translate well to big meets though.

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Re: RC10B4.2 things to think about

Post by Orange »

I think if wheelies are on demand in 17.5 class, then its a bit extreme... I have never run a Cactus track where we were not able to pull wheelies in modified classes. I have attended 15 of the 27 Cactus Classics. Sugar or anything foreign was never needed to get traction for that race. Hell, I pulled wheelies in 2010 with my 13.5 powered 4wd buggy and nothing added to the track then.

If wheelies are available on demand in Mod, then traction is not a problem.
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