2019 Vintage Off-Road Nationals - R/C Excitement Inc. Fitchburg, MA Sept. 13-15

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Re: 2019 Vintage Off-Road Nationals - R/C Excitement Inc. Fitchburg, MA Sept. 13-15

Post by RCveteran »

The chassis material part for me is what throws me?

What about a Junior Two or Pro SE, it's a plastic chassis but not a JRX2, classic class then? And we all know the factory drivers at Losi of the time switched to the plastic chassis.

A Traxxas Radicator is a plastic chassis but other than steering is essentially a TRX1 / 3 with a plastic tub?

Point really being the plastic tub allows you to build a cheater car pretty easy. If I show up with a Super Astute I get kicked to regular class with the hot rods because it came with a Fiberglass chassis? Yet if I bolt a Madcap plastic chassis in the middle on same car it is classic?

That is really the only reason I proposed a run what you brung class limited to brushed silver can motors. So much grey area said class really becomes for the I want to run something different and no I am not here for the trophy guys.

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Re: 2019 Vintage Off-Road Nationals - R/C Excitement Inc. Fitchburg, MA Sept. 13-15

Post by scr8p »

Using anything besides an rc10 or a jrx2 in Classic allows you to build a "cheater" car. Being able to use modern tires is everything.

It's supposed to be more or less a "Tamiya" class. The "plastic fantastic" stuff. It's starting to stray a little too far from the intended vehicles. I myself am not going to complain too much about it though. My Manta Ray was awesome. Only thing that held me back was my driving. That will be my classic class car until I die. :lol:

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Re: 2019 Vintage Off-Road Nationals - R/C Excitement Inc. Fitchburg, MA Sept. 13-15

Post by dldiaz »

Funny, I was pondering the idea of running an Astute before I read the reply above...

But I have to agree that the Classics class has strayed from what I expected it to be (after reading about it for years), and I think the allowance of "cheater" models is to blame...
I would vote for a "box-stock" class for all models, not just the RC10/JRX-2 models, maybe at least with box-stock wheel size for all, if not stock tires too?
- Although I'm sure the 'racers' among us would cut-down modern tires and mount to stock size rims... :twisted:


And By The Way, why does Classics go with a 'black' motor?? Maybe it should just be bring-your-own silver-can like the Wheelie class? - Maybe the slower motor would make 'cheater-mods' less of a deciding factor?
- And it would reduce the cost of entering a 'Classic'.


Sorry, just brainstorming here... :)
-dldiaz

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Re: 2019 Vintage Off-Road Nationals - R/C Excitement Inc. Fitchburg, MA Sept. 13-15

Post by jwscab »

I'll tell you, at the end of the day, you want to run tires that will work for the track. It's nice to talk about an even field or making it just for fun, but after 2 frustrating years with a gold pan and hard knobbies, I'd rather just comply with the rules and run tires so you can actually do laps. Spinning out, flopping and crashing is just no fun.

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Re: 2019 Vintage Off-Road Nationals - R/C Excitement Inc. Fitchburg, MA Sept. 13-15

Post by dldiaz »

jwscab wrote: Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:54 pm I'll tell you, at the end of the day, you want to run tires that will work for the track. It's nice to talk about an even field or making it just for fun, but after 2 frustrating years with a gold pan and hard knobbies, I'd rather just comply with the rules and run tires so you can actually do laps. Spinning out, flopping and crashing is just no fun.

I can certainly see that point - spinning out everywhere would be frustrating.


Any thoughts on the 'black-can' motor thing?
Why isn't 'Classics' a silver-can class like 'Wheelie'?
-dldiaz

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Re: 2019 Vintage Off-Road Nationals - R/C Excitement Inc. Fitchburg, MA Sept. 13-15

Post by RCveteran »

Seems to me this event has a lot of serious racers who almost treat it like any other club race, nothing wrong with that of course.

I would ask again, a mid engine XX tranny converted JR X Pro SE with big bore shocks, modern tires boosted with Lipo? It's plastic chassis and could run in classis class but I think we all see how it is not really in the spirit of a nice vintage run. That is the problem but if most don't see it as a problem then clearly it is not.

I am bringing a Super Astute which due to its factory FRP chassis is clearly an IFMAR contender. It's only about time people realized it :D

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Re: 2019 Vintage Off-Road Nationals - R/C Excitement Inc. Fitchburg, MA Sept. 13-15

Post by scr8p »

You are way to hung up on the whole plastic chassis deal. No one is going to run a mid motor pro se in the classic class. And, if you're coming just to run your old car and have fun, it shouldn't matter if they did. :wink:

As for the black sport tuned motors, it's kinda nice having a little hotter motor. And, it's only $5.00.

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Re: 2019 Vintage Off-Road Nationals - R/C Excitement Inc. Fitchburg, MA Sept. 13-15

Post by RCveteran »

I'm not hung up on anything, simply having a pointless dialogue about a hobby. No right answers and as I stated before I am not complaining and thankful the event exists.

Watch an Iconic revival youtube video from England I think you will see what I am getting at. They get fields of RC10's, Foxes, Falcons, Schumacher, Traxxas Stuff, MRC all vintage stuff in the same races. I was simply trying to say that a field of purpose built slick tires almost race cars does not create that type of vintage event. If you wanted to win this even it is clear you will gravitate towards some version of a RC10 mid engine conversion, Lazer or Yokomo. If you want to have fun you will simply be getting lapped. There does not seem to be a nice middle ground.

I guess I just don't see where a stone stock Ultima fits in this? Or an Astute? They are not plastic fantastic Hornets or wheelie, but they are not full on mid engine race cars either. And if they have to run in a class where they compete against a 4wd car even with a plastic chassis (now I'm hung up on purpose), well.... That is all, for now :D

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Re: 2019 Vintage Off-Road Nationals - R/C Excitement Inc. Fitchburg, MA Sept. 13-15

Post by stickboy007 »

Yes, the Super Astute and Ultima re-re would struggle at VONATS as it is presently set up. I had asked about creating a second 2wd class for those kinds of cars, but at the moment there is not enough desire for it. Those cars should be good enough for the existing 2wd class, and a good enough driver can be fast with them. If you don't want to be competitive with it and just have fun, then you'll naturally end up in the C-main or D-main with others who aren't that fast either. The problem there is that D-main drivers aren't necessarily just trying to have fun. Some of them just suck and don't know how to drive courteously on a track with other cars.

For any race, really, it's not straightforward to set it up in a way so that each race is "fun." It is a race after all. Put a bunch of naked supermodels in a room and say it's "hugs only, just for fun" and don't be surprised if you end up with some baby making. It's just human nature. They do try to account for this at VONATS by having a mix of classes, some of which like Wheelie, Heavy Metal, and Classic are more geared toward "fun." Even the other classes are **supposed** to be fun and not taken too seriously, but try saying that to field of seasoned 2wd and 4wd buggy racers. It's going to get competitive.

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Re: 2019 Vintage Off-Road Nationals - R/C Excitement Inc. Fitchburg, MA Sept. 13-15

Post by RCveteran »

I get it. I am somewhat seasoned and I guess just different, I've always known :D If I want a serious race I take my B6.1 to the track.

If I want to race vintage to me if I take the back and front end of my B6.1 and screw an old RC10tub in the middle of them and show up to race at Vonats with it, it technically is legal but honestly I am not running vintage in my head. As to the chassis delineation it just does not make sense so maybe I am hung up. Take the upcoming Ultima Rere, if I run as it is out of box it does not meet classic (metal chassis) and I am put in the regular 2wd class. If however I go out and find one one of the older Ultima II chassis in plastic and use it suddenly it is classic due to plastic chassis? Fundamentally in hands of same driver there will be no difference in performance (stickboy, just gave you next years classic formula, ditch that Radicator :lol: )

I may really want to see how a Super Astute would do. It's not even about winning but more trying to capture the memories and feelings of what the track was like in 1990 or some year. If this puts me in C or D main it does not mean I don't know how to race. That said the whole courtesy thing can be a bit overblown, in my experience locally we are all supposed to bow down to the fast guys who have lapped us even though we may be competing hard with friends for 5th place while we constantly have to be shouted at by the race director to move over ruining our race, I digress.

How would one define a class that tried to capture the "spirit" of vintage perhaps and left the others alone. The "spirit class". I think it is one of those you know it when you see it, and right now it is not seen.

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Re: 2019 Vintage Off-Road Nationals - R/C Excitement Inc. Fitchburg, MA Sept. 13-15

Post by dldiaz »

stickboy007 wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:58 pm ...Put a bunch of naked supermodels in a room...
:lol: Funny analogy!

But I have to agree with the "human nature" thing, the drive to race/compete/win, will eventually infiltrate any class no matter the rules.
This is why our local Sunday run-what-you-brung thing was so fun, for so many years - there was no winner, we all just played with our R/C cars.

Maybe the goal of the "spirit class" would just have to be: "keep a 100% box-stock, 1980's, R/C model running around the track for five minutes straight", if you can accomplish that you win! Everybody wins!
...But I guess some numb-nut would try to crash everyone else's car so he could be the only winner! :twisted:
-dldiaz

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Re: 2019 Vintage Off-Road Nationals - R/C Excitement Inc. Fitchburg, MA Sept. 13-15

Post by scr8p »

RCveteran wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:16 pm If I want to race vintage to me if I take the back and front end of my B6.1 and screw an old RC10tub in the middle of them and show up to race at Vonats with it, it technically is legal but honestly I am not running vintage in my head.
:lol: :lol:

Well..... that's quite a stretch. The most modern thing you're gonna see on someone's car is maybe big bore shock. Besides modern electronics and tires which are pretty much a given. In the case of my 2wd car, it's basically an out of the box RC10 Worlds rere. Except for the mods I did to copy Kinwald's real car (which changes nothing geometry'suspension wise). And I qualified 8th in the A main.

You don't need to have some wild creation. Just build what you like and run it.

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Re: 2019 Vintage Off-Road Nationals - R/C Excitement Inc. Fitchburg, MA Sept. 13-15

Post by RCveteran »

I get it's a stretch, I was merely highlighting the flaw in the rules that sort of groups cars that make no sense together anyways so why not just make it open with a torque tuned motor then regardless of chassis material and tires. Will be interesting to see if enough people jump on the Ultima rere and we see more. With it being a rere it becomes much more financially logical and easy to source parts soon enough. None of them can handle the Super in the Super Astute though :D

I was watching some old videos on youtube of maybe 2011 VONATS and I think it was outdoor on loose soil and I think Lars from Sweden won or did well with a Scorpion. The event has clearly morphed from those days as I don't see that happening in 2wd today. I would love to see one of the fast guys try with something unique in 2wd class just to prove it can be done with the right driver, but them being hard core it is unlikely as you would tend to go towards "logical" choice.

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Re: 2019 Vintage Off-Road Nationals - R/C Excitement Inc. Fitchburg, MA Sept. 13-15

Post by RCveteran »

How was the turnout for the HM2 class? Kingcabs, Stadium Blitzers etc.

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Re: 2019 Vintage Off-Road Nationals - R/C Excitement Inc. Fitchburg, MA Sept. 13-15

Post by dldiaz »

I don't remember what all was in the Heavy Metal class, but I think there were at least a couple Kingcabs and a couple Stadium Blitzers?


By The Way - if a box-stock aluminum chassis RC10 Re-re is legal for Classics, shouldn't the new Ultima Re-re also be allowed, of course with kit-stock tires, no chassis mods, etc.??


And just to lament a bit here:
I have owned really cool runner versions of Yokomo 834B and Mugen Bulldog (with fully functional all-wheel-steering!) - I really wish I had those back...
(( or at least that someone else would run one at the VONats… what about a Royal Ripper? Anyone? :mrgreen: ))
-dldiaz

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