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Re: Bored? Come To The Chit / Chat Thread

Post by Halgar »

morrisey0 wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 6:50 pm I really was hoping it wasn't going to be very bad, and it was going to be concentrated in one area, but nope. The issue is (and was) failure of the headwall flashing, and it should have been fixed the first time around. The first 2' of plywood is shot from one end to the other, and 4' in some spots. Most of the joists are bad 2-4' from the top also. I am not a framer or a roofer, but I am going to see what I can do here. Cut out the bad, replace with good. The only part that I have to really think about is the original problem, the flashing. I am going to take that part slow.
Thankfully, you've got that header, so you can get away with replacing the joists to the header and not have to replace the entire roof system.

That wall to roof transition flashing should have been replaced with the new roof, which will entail removing the bottom row of siding from the wall. I would recommend doing this after you've rebuilt and reroofed the house. That is to say, the new roof should be laid up to the wall, then the new flashing should be installed. This will prevent damage to the flashing during the roofing process and ensure that it sits tightly against the roof surface.

What is the slope angle, or pitch of the roof? This is typically expressed as rise and run, say 4/12, which means 4" of vertical rise for every 12" of horizontal run. Composition roof materials cannot be any less than 2/12

I would also take this time with the ceiling open to upgrade or add any wiring or lighting. At the very least, change the fluorescent fixtures to LED (about $40 each), this will provide you with much better lighting. You could also change them to LED recessed lights which would modernize the look and feel of the space, give you more head room by getting them into the ceiling instead of hanging from the header, and with the right style you will be able to control the temperature (color) of the light. If you choose dimmable lights, that will give you control over lumens (brightness/intensity) of the light.
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Re: Bored? Come To The Chit / Chat Thread

Post by morrisey0 »

It is almost like you were in my head there! :shock:

I put in that header the first time around because I felt the whole thing had been weakened a bit, and my joist sistering was just some 2x4s. It just gave me a little bit of security. None of the new damage goes below the header, so yea, it is nice that it is there. The plan is to just install full 8' 2x6s sistered to the joists that are there, and run to them to the ridge, with the bad sections cut out. So, the new joists will be sistered 4'+, supported by the header, and secured at the ridge. I think structurally that should be fine without having to replace the entire joists.

The pitch is 2:12, which is an issue I know, but I have had roofers tell me it is okay, minimum, but okay. I have been advised to put ice/water shield down because of the pitch, so that will end up at the top wherever I replace plywood. I would like to actually run the ice/shield up onto the wall also, and then the wall Tyvek run over it, and then the flashing on top of everything. I just feel like that is maybe another layer of protection.

I have a ten pack of 4' LED shoplights on the way, and they should be here tomorrow. The round outlet boxes in the ceiling, and an additional two more boxes on the header, are switched. I think about 6 lights spread out evenly should work. Probably not going to get as fancy as recessed lights for this room. I actually like the LED shoplights because you can move them around so easily if you end up with shadows where you are working. On that subject though, I love the little shallow recessed LEDs with the multi levels of "warmth." I paid Lowes prices for some I put in my front foyer, but recently put these in my kitchen: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BV6N8BBY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1 They are the same quality as the ones from Lowes (which isn't super awesome), and six lights for $45, you can't beat it. I am going to be another set in my dining room soon.

Well, today was relax day because it is rainy here. The rest of the week should be rain-free, and I have taken off some time for this project. Tomorrow is demo day!!
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Re: Bored? Come To The Chit / Chat Thread

Post by Halgar »

Yep, I use that style of puck light almost exclusively. Much easier install then the days of the physical can style.

Not sure how you'll get full length joists in there with the roof on, but making them as long as possible will certainly beef up what's left. And, yes, you definitely want to remove the damaged portion.

I&W shield will help, but shouldn't be necessary if the flashing and roofing are done properly, with exception of if you live in a snow zone, then I'd definitely recommend it. Are you doing the roof repair yourself or having it done?
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Re: Bored? Come To The Chit / Chat Thread

Post by morrisey0 »

I have this thing about working around my schedule and not really anyone else's, so the plan is to solo this. :D The easiest task here may be the most tedious for me, and that is just the shingles. I think I have done roofing once in my life, about 20 years ago, and for maybe four hours. :D I will just take my time with it. Repeat the spacing that is there, put a chalk line across, line em up and nail them down.
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Re: Bored? Come To The Chit / Chat Thread

Post by Halgar »

Oh, so you're one of THOSE kind of people, eh? :wink: :wink: :wink: :mrgreen:

There is nothing about this project that is particularly difficult, the hardest part will be removing the bottom row of siding to replace the flashing, which is more tedious than hard. Most of it is just remove and replace things exactly how they were originally.

If you do not have a multi-tool aka oscillating tool, get one, and I recommend the Diablo 2-1/2" blades over all other brands and types of blade, except for the rare occasion when you need to get into a tighter space, then the narrow version. I literally use my multi-tool every single day, don't know how I ever lived without it, and Diablo blades are the best and longest lasting. Even though they say "nail embedded wood" and will cut the odd nail or screw here and there, it will immediately kill the blade, so try to avoid metal as much as possible, and always have backup blades. One of the things I do is keep better used blades for doing things that will kill fresh blades, like cutting nails or drywall, and save the fresh blades for cutting wood.
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Re: Bored? Come To The Chit / Chat Thread

Post by morrisey0 »

My workshop now has a skylight! Glad to see a good amount of the nasty go away. :D The worst rafters are yet to come, and I haven't looked at any of them beyond where the back wall is. Fingers crossed on that section. Now that I have gotten deep into it, I am 100% confident that without the header in there, this roof would have collapsed by now. With the header, the bad section of roof only needed to support ~4, and it was having a hard time with that. But without it, the roof would have had to support ~13', and it just wouldn't have happened.
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Re: Bored? Come To The Chit / Chat Thread

Post by R6cowboy »

morrisey0 wrote: Tue May 28, 2024 8:20 pm My workshop now has a skylight! Glad to see a good amount of the nasty go away. :D The worst rafters are yet to come, and I haven't looked at any of them beyond where the back wall is. Fingers crossed on that section. Now that I have gotten deep into it, I am 100% confident that without the header in there, this roof would have collapsed by now. With the header, the bad section of roof only needed to support ~4, and it was having a hard time with that. But without it, the roof would have had to support ~13', and it just wouldn't have happened.
Just a thought. Could you use 2x6 joist hangers all the way across the wall and delete the beam altogether? Assuming the ends of the sistered 2x6s are butted up against framing...? I just wouldn't care for the 4x4 post there if it wasn't necessary.
-Jerry-

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Re: Bored? Come To The Chit / Chat Thread

Post by morrisey0 »

R6cowboy wrote: Tue May 28, 2024 10:21 pm Just a thought. Could you use 2x6 joist hangers all the way across the wall and delete the beam altogether? Assuming the ends of the sistered 2x6s are butted up against framing...? I just wouldn't care for the 4x4 post there if it wasn't necessary.
I maybe / probably could, but at this point, I am going to stick to the header. It just brings me a little extra comfort. The post is there as a support at a butt joint of the beam. I am thinking about actually encapsulating the beam support into a wall, and that wall extend ~3.5" perpendicular to the long wall of the room. I know adding a wall seems kinda stupid, but with the post there, the space around it becomes pretty worthless, and a wall allows for hanging stuff. So, have a worthless open space or have a wall you can hang things on?

The last couple of days have not proceeded as expected. Three reasons: 1) old 2) fat 3) [real] work has been stupidly in the way, and have had to deal with it too much. I am going to pull back one of my PTO days because of how much I have had to do.

Wednesday morning I finished up all of the joints that needed attention.
WS8.jpg

I then did some housekeeping and loaded up all the demo junk in the trailer. Got to the dump, and the rule is that all insulation has to be bagged. :roll: So, carefully removed everything else from the trailer and dumped it, and then put all the insulation back in and covered. Then hit the grocery store to get dinner, and the 0% chance of rain day started drenching! Got home and there was a good amount of water in the room, but could deal with it.
WS9.jpg
Thursday was an early trip for plywood, and then install. There are little guys here and there, but I wouldn't worry about that little guy.
WS10.jpg
Then another trip for underlayment, shingles, pipe flashing, etc. Thursday afternoon was underlayment install. This is peel-n-stick leak barrier, and it is expensive and maybe too much effort, but again, it gives me the warm and fuzzies. On smaller projects like this, you can put in a little more than you would on larger stuff. This stuff is a little bit of a pain to work with, but accomplished exactly what I wanted. I feel like this is giving me just a little more confidence. For this particular project, and its history, I am much more happy with this barrier, and it running up the wall, than I would be with just felt there.
WS11.jpg
Friday morning is shingle morning, and depending on how that goes, maybe go get flashing and siding. The original hope was to finish this whole thing, sheetrock and all, this week, but nope. But I kinda like it this way as I can finish the top side, and have it get a rain storm or two and verify tightness before closing it all in. That is called excusing your lack of progress. :D
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Re: Bored? Come To The Chit / Chat Thread

Post by TRX-1-3 »

morrisey0 wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 11:08 pm That is called excusing your lack of progress. :D
You could fancy that up to read: "implementing in-situ proof of concept"
Hope you're doin' something fun.

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Re: Bored? Come To The Chit / Chat Thread

Post by R6cowboy »

Good call using the peel-n-stick underlayment in lieu of felt paper. Since you mentioned it, adding a short wall from the post seems like a beneficial idea.
-Jerry-

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Re: Bored? Come To The Chit / Chat Thread

Post by morrisey0 »

Oh, and I could make a lot of progress on this little project on Saturday ................. but I am hoping to attend my first RC truck/tractor pulling event that day! :mrgreen: They have been trying to have their first spring event for the past six Saturdays or so, but rain and (two) holidays keep pushing it back. :( This Saturday is looking fantastic!!

Finish needed project or attend RC event??? Simple answer.
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Re: Bored? Come To The Chit / Chat Thread

Post by morrisey0 »

The wife just ran into the hobby room, and was like "it's raining, do you have everything you need covered?" I was like, what are you talking about? There is no chance for rain tonight!!! FML

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Re: Bored? Come To The Chit / Chat Thread

Post by Halgar »

The surest way to get rain is to open up your roof! :shock: :shock: :lol: No, I'm not joking, even in the middle of your "dry season" rain is inevitable if you open up your roof! So, The absolute most important part of this job is to secure the roof to be water resistant. Notice I say "resistant" and not waterproof, two totally different things! When you're fighting the elements, you've just got to get things weathered in, let weather events pass, then finish out with the waterproofing. You've got your I&W down, so you're water tight for now. An added benefit is that this is an addition to the house, so a little bit of leakage won't be a big deal. At any rate, once the weather event passes, you can then finish the roofing, flashing, and siding and be totally weather tight.

Even in new construction, NOTHING happens inside until there is a weatherproof shell. So, deal with the important parts first, then worry about finishing the interiors later. 8)
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Re: Bored? Come To The Chit / Chat Thread

Post by morrisey0 »

For the first half of the day today, I got the shingles on, and I am good with how all that turned out. Then I made a materials trip for flashing and siding for the afternoon, and I just didn't like how the whole flashing thing went, and frustration kicked in, and I am just tired of looking at the whole thing, blah blah blah. I really want to do other things tomorrow, and Sunday is usually a lazy day for me (even more lazy than my normal days!), so I don't know how I feel about this whole thing right now. Rain is supposed to come Sunday evening, so I have to do something.................... Don't mind me, just venting! :o
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Re: Bored? Come To The Chit / Chat Thread

Post by Halgar »

One thing to keep in mind with this project is that the roof isn't visible from the ground, so as long as it's watertight, that's all that matters. 8)
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