Correct information on the "Early Edinger" numbers

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Eau Rouge
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Re: Correct information on the "Early Edinger" numbers

Post by Eau Rouge »

slotcarrod wrote:How rare something is, is always reflected in the going price at auctions.
Not necessarily. Rarity is only one consideration of overall value. I spent years acquiring Schumacher CAT and Delta on-road cars and parts while everyone was bathing in RC10 gluttony, and those cars are FAR more rare than RC10s ever were. I was scooping up stuff for 20¢ on the dollar because no one else was looking or buying. There are plenty of early Losi cars that are just as rare as early gold pans that are nowhere close to the same value. In fact, early Losis are still, IMO, one of the great untapped collectible R/C markets right now.

The going price at auctions is easily inflated if two yahoos both decide they want something and they will pay anything to have it. That doesn't make it's going market value higher, it just makes for a happy seller. eBay is widely known to heavily distort collectible value of a lot of things, from odd bidding trends. What's hot today might not be hot tomorrow, and that doesn't change the value of anything, per se. Just because an item sold on eBay last week for a certain price, does not mean that it was worth that. Over time, the average value of something is gained by multiple sales eliminating the anomalies, high and low.

At no point did I ever state that there were only 500 Edinger's made! I simply stated that mine was from the first batch of 500. I also doubt the first 5000 made all had Good Year tires!
Consider that I bought my RC10 2 years after it hit the market, and mine had Goodyear tires, I wouldn't bet the farm on that. They DID wear out really fast, though, as the front ribs peeled off like someone glued them to the tire carcass. It's just a good chance that the tires were one of the first wear items that was replaced. I didn't see many of those tires sold separately in packages, though, so that might have been something else contributing to their rarity.

Your car is definitely EARLY, considering the fiberglass battery straps and the cup spring perches in the rear, but as for other car with Goodyear tires, I doubt you could carbon-date them from those pieces.

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Re: Correct information on the "Early Edinger" numbers

Post by slotcarrod »

Why do you quote me and not use my complete statement? :roll:

If your going to comment on a topic and quote someone, please try to read said statement in full before commenting! This usually works very well! :lol:

Where is the "bitch slap" smilie? :lol:

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Re: Correct information on the "Early Edinger" numbers

Post by Eau Rouge »

I quoted exactly what you wrote. Yes, there are other factors as well, but my point did not have anything to do with those other factors. You are mistaken if you believe that rarity is mainly driving the price of things in the R/C collector's world. The rarest of R/C cars have been ignored for many years and continue to be ignored today.

Yes, you have a rare RC10 by RC10 standards. We all know of it. You're lucky to own it. Synthetically inflating the perceived rarity to give you more comfort in its perceived value is getting old. Sell it for what you think it is worth or put it on the shelf and enjoy it. We get it, you have a car that is rarer than everyone else's. Give it a rest. Short of Jay, we all own 25-year old RC10s. And in the world of R/C car collectibles, RC10s do not even register on the value scale.



Bitch slap THAT. :P :roll:

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Re: Correct information on the "Early Edinger" numbers

Post by Charlie don't surf »

Did the two of you wake up on the wrong side of the bed today? Fact is, regardless when you bought your RC10 and what tires it had for what reason, without serialization it's only a guess--and with the info we do have, it's a hypothesis at best.

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Re: Correct information on the "Early Edinger" numbers

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Re: Correct information on the "Early Edinger" numbers

Post by bearrickster »

You all should just through them all away and buy Losi's :P :P stop worrying about how rare it is and just run the crap out of it. whats rare is seeing these cars being raced. like they were built for. if they were made to be queens they would have made them a smaller scale. :lol: :lol: :P
LOSI RULES!!

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http://www.rc10talk.com/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=16714

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Re: Correct information on the "Early Edinger" numbers

Post by Ruffy »

I just re-read this thread and just to clarify, the question I posted to Curtis was not with regard to how many of the 6010 or 6016 kits were ever made, but it was specifically directed to just those very early first kits they released for sale that had did have the Goodyear tires, rear cup spring cups, with notched pistons, etc. in the kits. His number of approximately 5000 I seriously believe is as good as an approximate as we will ever get from anyone from within Associated Electrics early managers that was as close to the product line as Curtis Husting.
:D
In the spirit from the collector's point of view, there will honestly never be a way to tell with any possible degree of certainty, if any of the early kits that any one of us has or might acquire in the future, might be the very first one sold, 10th one, 100th one or 1000th ever sold.
I don't think it is constructive for us to focus on that and to believe otherwise I think we would be fooling ourselves, and losing site of why we all enjoy the RC10's history and the aspects we enjoy with collecting them.
:D I'm just extremely happy to have found this forum and joined others who like myself, have a small collection of RC10's not for their resale value, but for the memories of my teenage years and early years of dating my wife they bring with them.
And Yes, She really enjoys them as well as she was with me all of those years each and every weekend I took my RC10 out! I can honestly say that from age 19 to 34 (approx. age of 34 used as I don't actually remember when I retired) that I raced with the RC10 every weekend, she only missed 1-1/2 years worth of racing at the end!! :P

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Re: Correct information on the "Early Edinger" numbers

Post by Ruffy »

I didn't want to drag this topic up again, but felt it would be appropriate for future viewers on this topic.

I was just watching one of the old videos that Gene sent me (the early prototype DVD set called "Born to Race", long before he started offering them for sale on his website), and came across this article he outlines in the video. Notice it states the 1st 5000 kits released ( first batch qty. number ).
5000kits.JPG

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Re: Correct information on the "Early Edinger" numbers

Post by Charlie don't surf »

And there is may be :wink:, or ( just to ruffle feathers ) that was tongue in cheek to keep the momentum up, and complaints down 8)

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Re: Correct information on the "Early Edinger" numbers

Post by slotcarrod »

That's some great research you have done Ruffy, thanks again.

I still believe that out of the first 5000 kits made there were variations and updates, like nylon battery straps, no Good Year on sides of tires, spring retainers. It's not difficult to make minor changes/improvements during production, even from day to day. We have always seen Associated do this with the RC10's.

One thing to note is the chassis, the back bone of the RC10. That light gold anodizing that is consistent with all the early to mid Edingers. They would have ordered and anodized that first batch all at once. Was that 5000 light gold chassis produced? Or did they anticipate 10,000 in sales or more and order that number? Makes you wonder? As a business man, would you go out and order 10,000 chassis if you only projected 5000 in your first sales?

Remember all the later RC10's had many different shades of gold from each production batch!

Think about this! If there are 5000 light gold, fiberglass battery strapped RC10's out there, and only once in a blue moon will one surface, how many made it to the landfill? Not many people throw away RC cars, even though they are old, broken or outdated!

This is just "my" speculation using a tiny bit of common sense.

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Re: Correct information on the "Early Edinger" numbers

Post by Ruffy »

Initially I thought there were less, of the no-stamp, light gold, fiberglass battery strap cars with Goodyear tires, etc... that we call "early edinger RC10's out there. But after mulling over the info that Curtis provided, coupled with information I had from Kim Davis while working for him, the owner of Composite Craft who before he created CC, he organized and held many big race events in the state of Florida that Gene quotes about in some of his videos... Also, with my experience in having worked in the RC car industry and how things work and the why's... I now truly believe that there were at the very least just over 5000 early edinger RC10 identical kits sold by Associated. RC10's that were identical down to the last part because they most likely felt that for the most part there car would not sell that quickly and it would give them good market feedback on how many kits to continue to produce yearly based upon the 1st 5000 batch of sales and the turn-around time to their purchase.
Things like the chassis color and such, is easily reproducible consistantly batch after batch, using the same company to anodize it, same recipe quantity (dye) and same time in the dye. If you use the same ano place they will basically have your setup sheet for your product line and can repeat it over and over again. You can then continue to have made batch after batch of light gold anodized parts since this color tone is dictated by the recipe they used at that moment in time. This probably would not change for years, until they either changed the anodize place (maybe they closed or raised their prices) or the recipe at the same ano place was changed due to the procedures for what would produce a better end product (ano hold up longer for example) was at that time currently better for anodizing, changed.

I had thought about your last statement sometime back, and remembered that in my own club we had some early edinger cars as I stated somewhere earlier in this forum. Some were owned by close friends of mine, and here is what they did. Back then, if you had an early edinger it was thought to have been inferior to the later dark gold anodized kits sold (Cadillacs for example) due to the richer gold that held up better against wear (like from the springs on the shock bodies), newer softer tires that gripped the dirt better and nearly everyone I know would change the parts out for newer ones, like replacing the shock bodies, tires, replacing the chassis due to scratches and wear, and replacing the fiberglass battery straps for the nylon ones. This latter was done because the fiberglass was more abrasive and would cut or wear excessively into the battery heat shrink ruining the look of your new battery pack quickly. When the nylon battery straps came out everyone I knew of just bought them to replace their fiberglass ones. Even the old tranny parts like that clip were changed as it would break, or allow the gear to move about, changed out for the nut and post because it was better, with the old parts thrown out. Just like anything that evolves, the older light gold cars that people owned were not cherished as much as the latest and greatest improved upon kits (much like our current feelings on most anything current like the apple iphone vs iphone 3, 3G, 3GS, 4...), and therefore the parts were used for racing around the street and yards, used on racetracks, bent or worn-out, replaced with newer parts, and eventually the old parts were either thrown out or left in a box that got thrown out, donated to some kid to put on his hotshot or frog (yes this actually happened) or lost.
I myself at age 18, found an early Associated 1/12 scale car (I think a 12E) with Futaba Radio (square beige one with wheel and side trigger switch) and the very ancient Futaba radio gear that was tan (before they went black), along with an old Jerobee 1/12 scale car and Kraft radio in the trash when a family down a street were moving approximately 23 years ago, and I only had to replace the batteries, new tires and gave them to my brother (he still to this day owns that radio, servos and receiver) and has them mounted in his old Tamiya Pajero he bought 21-22 yrs ago, sitting in his closet. Don't ask me where the Jerobee or the 12E are, as they were thrown out many years ago in the trash. So these too are in a landfill somewhere.
I think the ones we find like yours & mine, are the lucky ones as they were put into a closet or storage area, forgotten about and left untouched for 20+ years. Then something happens, like a death in the family and things are opened to sell, giveaway or just to throw out the clutter and up pops another Early Edinger RC10 for sale somewhere. Unfortunately I do think the vast majority of them sit in landfills (or at least their parts), as the thing to do when moving from place to place is to throw out the clutter to move less items...especially unused items even if they are in good condition. I myself am guilty of throwing out many early RC10 chassis, noseplates, shock towers, etc.. from just wear and tear.
I do honestly believe that there were over 5000 kits made and sold that we call early edinger style RC10's; but I don't think many have survived still put together or at all. I think the rarity in these kits is not in how many were made as there were over 5000 kits, but in how many have survived the test of time intact with all of their original parts, electronics, wiring, wing and body.

:D

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Re: Correct information on the "Early Edinger" numbers

Post by slotcarrod »

Good points, I like how you think!

I know I have thrown out a few dozen cars in parts over the years. :oops: With a race car, your constantly changing worn out or broken parts, updating performance, improving the look. Makes perfect sense what you say!

I can understand what you say about the anodizing process, and that it would be easy to replicate a colour with a fixed recipe from batch to batch. Can you ask Curtis or his Dad, why there were so many different shades? Was this just poor quality control?

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Re: Correct information on the "Early Edinger" numbers

Post by Ruffy »

I will ask them and see what their reply is and post it, as it would be great for this thread. I also want to thank-you Rod and the others that participate in these healthy dialogs on these wonderful forums, which enable us to see ideas from each other and learn different things from the past and possible angles of thought/approach. This type of healthy interchange was essential while working in R&D engineering within the RC Industry.
Thank-you very much. :D
I will ask Curtis and/or Gene and will post the findings.

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Re: Correct information on the "Early Edinger" numbers

Post by Ruffy »

Confession: You know when I mentioned the part about thowing out the transmission post and clip that held the lower output gears, for the newer more "state of the art, better for consistant racing and for less wear on the idler gears"; that was not only my buddies, but it was I that was the 1st in my group of weekend race-buddies to change these all out on my early RC10 race car.
I remember distinctly going thru two of these transmission clips as I broke one during routine weekly cleaning once trying to get it back on. The 2nd time it broke while practicing, and I remember the metal shards embedded in my white idler gears and a small steel chunk stuck in the inside of the tranny case; which I then changed the idler gears to the newer, better black ones too. I also vividly remember using the old notched shock pistons as spacers, by drilling out the center hole, when I switched my pistons to the two hole kind which were much better for the suspension.
My 1st RC10 did have all of these things, but it did not have the early tires, or fiberglass battery straps, and I am guilty myself of tossing what I felt at the time was useless junk. :oops:

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Re: Correct information on the "Early Edinger" numbers

Post by Y'ernat Al »

Ruffy wrote:According to Curtis, there were many cars sold out there that we refer to as the Early Edingers. The kits with goodyear tires, notched pistons, early speedo's, light gold anodizing, etc... and with all of the features making them early Edinger RC10's. Accoriding to Curtis, there are at least 3,000 to 5,000 kits that were made as what we refer to as an Early Edinger RC10. He stated that as molds were made they would just continuosly update the kits, tires and parts.
....
Ruffy, The first "5,000" weren't all unstamped chassis were they? Is there any story behind the stamping, when and why did it start? I may have missed it, but I don't remember any explanation on 10talk (just some comments on the double stamped A over B anomaly). Seems the A Stamps came about well before there was any vision of a "B" or "C" stamped chassis? Any story there? :D Maybe I'll re-read some of the older posts and see. -Brian

PS.
and I am guilty myself of tossing what I felt at the time was useless junk. :oops:
And it's useful now? Only to those of us that aren't turning green :mrgreen: :mrgreen: reading about all this. I appreciate the passion! :lol: :lol:
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