RC10 CE Set Up and Race Discussion

[Charlie don't surf]

I've found a good digi mg servo and no servo saver makes a much more consistent feel too-

[Jay Dub]

Ditto. I don't use a servo saver. A good quallity MG servo and flex in the stock worlds type steering is all you need . I would bet that some of what you are feeling is due to the servo saver and plastic steering setup. As far as the ride height is concerned, yes the newer tires do cause the car to run high. This means that at ride height (arm angled upward) you will have a car that doesn't quite have the proper suspension progression (because they did not start out level). This isn't however a castor block/steering knuckle issue -it is arm sweep issue. With the arms sweeping as far back as on the RC10, the axle is pulled further back, and "wedges" up the front. Like you said, they were designed to run with smaller diameter tires and wheels. So I say why not. Most of the tires today have ample sidewall, so I think you should try trimming a section of the tire out in order to reduce its overall diameter. I don't know what it is like where you race, but at my local indoor track, we get several weekends out of a set of front tires (JC Golds) so the work would be worth it.

Also, if you have too much static weight on the rear then this can cause an issue with over transfering on the front. And depending on the type of corners, and shock oil weight etc. you may be missing that "off-center" or initial steering weight transfer. Or rather it may not be timed properly. If you have a little more weight (read proper weight on the front), then the timing of the transfer will be more in line with what you expect in the corner.

Now, I also feel that the swept arm cars (although great in the rough) have a slight disadvantage in agility becuse the control moment of the front end is swept back in comparison the the modern "straight" arm cars. This will effect how quickly the cars weight will be moved around via steering input. I am currently designing front arms that are longer (to accomodate B4 style wheels), and have less sweep to lengthen the wheelbase, provide better front end clearance, and address the issue previously mentioned. That said, I run my cars with arms below level (slightly), and don't feel they are lacking too badly. -Jeff

[JK Racing]

Jay Dub...thank you, I didnt grab most of it (yet), but it will sink in this thick skull.

Here is how the car sits now:







I did change the front spring perches to some RPM I robbed from another car. I like that I can move the spring clamps up a bit with those.

[JK Racing]

droop:



this is after I added some to the rear (removing a spacer)

[Lonestar]

Reg, Jeff, thanks for the input.

We run fullslots as a spec tire where i race. I thought about it myself but I cannot cut them to fit smaller wheels really... I also thought about grinding the axle carrier to raise the axle wrt the c-hub but there isn't much material to shave there either.

I need to think about it some more.

This is a great thread btw, thanks guys for sharing the knowledge

Paul

[Charlie don't surf]

Joey, those rear springs aren't green rears (1.90#) they are green truck fronts (2.99#) and i'm 99% sure that they are T2 truck front's (3.45#) which is stiffer than the gold rears-

[JK Racing]

I should have looked at the package when I bought them, I asked for buggy green rear...I've used them for over a year, always on an outdoor track and not had an issue, just this indoor track is where I found my problems.

[JHarris]

I'd add some rear droop.

[Jay Dub]

Ditto, I usually start with the center of the rear axle level with the chassis (for droop) on most of my cars. The front looks fine for starters. It also looks as though you could use some weight on the front end. I am running about one ounce. It appears you don't have any. One thing that I might add is that the wheels are not quite optimum. I am using the B3 Worlds/ wide Proline Revlite rims. They are wider (same width as modern rims). This will widen and lower your tire -Very important with modern tires (I think). Note* that rim and tire setup may work quite well on a rough or choppy track however. The rear wing looks a little big. I personally like the looks of big wings, however for reasons previously stated you might want to look for a smaller wing (6 or 6.5 inch), and keep the wicker short. Otherwise it looks pretty good. Keep us updated. -Jeff

[JK Racing]

Ditto, I usually start with the center of the rear axle level with the chassis (for droop) on most of my cars.

I will rework the rear shocks again

The front looks fine for starters. It also looks as though you could use some weight on the front end. I am running about one ounce. It appears you don't have any.

There is 1/2 oz behind the body post/in front of the shock tower, I can add more.

One thing that I might add is that the wheels are not quite optimum.

I have only found 2 pair of non-B4 front wheels, the B3 wides have my 7202 rib tires for outdoor, I just found these a few days ago and the 7202's didnt work on the indoor clay, and I needed tires mounts, so I used what I had.

The rear wing looks a little big. I personally like the looks of big wings, however for reasons previously stated you might want to look for a smaller wing (6 or 6.5 inch), and keep the wicker short.

I believe that is a 6", but I will measure it (at least that is what I asked for, I am bad about not readying the header card and just pulling the parts out of package when the "look" right

Otherwise it looks pretty good. Keep us updated. -Jeff

I have these changes to test and a WOIN car to dial in now

[JHarris]

I know that the rear geometry of the RC10 isn't perfect and that there may be some camber change between full droop and full compression, but there shouldn't be a huge amount. My point is that when I look at the picture taken from the back looking forward it looks like the camber is near zero or even positive. With the bones level (which is where the rear rides on all my RC10's) there should be -2 degrees. I will also add that the points made about the wheel width are valid, however; we run on super high traction tracks here using the Duratrax front wheel and running the front arms level and don't have any problems. We prefer a ribbed tire on most tracks. Lastly...... Since I run weekly with Ruffy I can comment for his car on this one too. None of our cars use additional weight. We always ran weight on our modern AE cars, but never found the need to use weight on the RC10.

If you get the time try switching to #1 pistons in the rear with 30-35wt oil and silver springs. That will allow the rear of the car to rebound with more authority which will help with the jump attitude. The RC10 flies nose high naturally, but that may help some.

Setup is unique to individual driving style. It kills me to hear guys at the track getting all excited when a new setup from a top factory driver is posted online for all the world to now use. What works for Maifield or Cav may not work for everyone else. If it did the top guys would all run the same setup. The same thing applies here. What works for Reggie, Jeff ( the other Jeff) or me may not work for everyone else. Take what we offer and try it, but make sure to let everyone know how it works for you and what you want the car to do differently. I think collectively we can help tune better knowing you want more steering or rear traction and so on.

[JK Racing]

Always great advice Jeff H, I know I cant drive with the Pro set ups, went down that route with the 22. I like a neutral feel, not edgy. A touch a push is okay, but not a ton.

I was truly looking for what advice I have been given...car does this, what changes do you suggest to add/remove it. While I have driven for many years, I was quite spoiled with cars that really worked (for the era) with very little changes. (Ultima/Jrx 5 link on oval, LXT/XXTcr off road) I particularly remember my XXTcr being especially friendly, change tracks, just change tires - maybe gearing, that was it. My set up never changed, pretty sure I ran it box with only changes to springs. Once I moved into more modern cars, I was relying on pro set ups, but just couldnt get back to the feel I had with the older cars (and being older, eyes and reflexes have slowed).

I like the expert advice on what a change will do to the car, those help me learn.

[Jay Dub]

Noticed one other thing on your car. Looks as though you have 1.5* arm mounts with 1.5* rear hubs. Look into running the 3* inner arm mounts, with the 0* outer hubs. Also, I wasn't going to go into it yet (we have put t ton of info on you as of late ), but you can try modifying your rims to help with the width desrepency between old style and new style rims. I often cut off the outer rib on the rim, and move it to the inside of the rim to widen the tire and flatten the contact patch (ala Kinwald). This will help with the newer style of rubber. Also what JeffH was saying about driving style is correct, it's not a matter of what changes to the car will do. But more a matter of what those changes do to YOUR car. I always try to relate setup advice in terms of theory, and then how it may effect your particular instance. This is where setup advice gets tricky . The only way to really know what is going to happen, is to try it for yourself. Keep us updated.-Jeff

[JK Racing]

I used to do that cut "trick" on my original XX buggy front wheels. PITA, but works. I will get some of the Duratrax wheels for the next go round. These were used out of convenience and necessity.

I added more rear droop and checked my camber settings, 1.5 rear, 2.0 front, arms level on each end. I will see if I have some zero rear carriers, I know I have 2 sets of 3 degree rear mounts, just not in white

I am absorbing what you guys are saying/suggesting. I know the best thing is track time and tweaking, love the guidance on where to start.

Oh...measured the rear wing, 6.5"

[Charlie don't surf]

On the subject of tires too, Sean or Scott were telling me that Kinwald had started removing tread height from the AKA Rebars (I know the rears always seemed squirmy) and specifically removing the outer or profiling the outer lip-