RC10 CE Set Up and Race Discussion

General info, Q&A.

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RC10 CE Set Up and Race Discussion

Post by JK Racing »

So, had a blast running my CE at an indoor clay track, but had some handling issues that I feel were completely set up related.

Current set up:

Front:
  • Proline CE front wheels with Proline Scrubs, MC compound, standard sized front foam (quite stiff with the narrow wheels)
    Camber link in standard CE places
    Front shock tower (worlds copy for .89 shocks) center top hole, outside on arm
    .89 Gold (B3) shocks, CE clamps/spring cups
    Black AE springs
    #2 piston 40 wgt Losi oil
    1/2 oz lead between tower & body mount
    arms slightly below level
Rear:
  • Stock AE 2.2 wheels (Worlds) with Proline Suburbs, MC compound, AKA molded red foam (set up the fast guys use)
    Camber link in CE inner hole bulkhead, standard rear carrier
    Rear worlds shock tower, all the way inside top, all the way out on arm
    1.32 Gold shock, CE clamps/spring cups, 2 standard limiters on 1.02 shafts (I think)
    Green AE springs
    #2 piston 35 wgt Losi oil
    arms slightly above level
Other:
  • Team Checkpoint 5400 28C battery/Turnigy Nano 5600 50C battery
    MIP CVDs
    Trinity Speed Gems Titanite (15X2), geared 20/87
    Novak Tempest Pro
    Futaba 9401
    FlySky 2.4 receiver
    AMB transponder
    Old, slow reflexes Driver
Issues - rear became unsettled really easily, felt like it would bottom out and bounce off the ground, loosing traction.
Issues - initial turn in was push, but mid/exit was good, little better after lowering the nose.
Issues - car didnt rotate that well, little better after raising the rear.
Issues - could NOT get the nose down over the extra large triple/roller or quad (if you dare) in the center of the track, other jumps werent bad, but never nose down.
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Re: RC10 CE Set Up and Race Discussion

Post by farmer »

wa sup jk
im guessing you are running trailing not inline?
also is this a rutty track are smooth?
you running short wheel base are long?
is this a blue groove are just high traction damp clay?
whats your rear camber at?
brakes on you radio?
what rear wing?

the rear end seems like a stiff but DEAD
you should have good bound coming down from the jump and very little chassis roll
but no quick rebound and a skittish rear end
with that set up

on my home track my gold pan likes a real soft set up due to the ruts and junk
but with a kinda recent JBRL they are still running the blue goove
so i had to change my shocks
running fronts 45 with 1s & silver springs
rear 40 with 3/16 limiters and #2 pistons with blue springs
i run my bones level all the time
if you want more chassis roll stand your shocks up
farmer
my spelling not so good! but i can DRIVE the wheels off anything!

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Re: RC10 CE Set Up and Race Discussion

Post by JK Racing »

inline front axles, standard buggy wheelbase (assuming that is short).

rear wing is the JC 6" high clearance

Very high traction damp clay indoor, smooth, if it dries out, it blue grooves quickly

Rear diff is butter smooth, the "flick" test gets me 1 1/2 to 2 full revolutions, no slipping. Slipper will lift the front about an inch.

rear camber is stock CE, under wing tube, only mount available at the hub

brakes 100%, I can lock up the rear end and slide at will

I did attempt to stand the shocks up 1 hole, it rotated a bit better, but still had the unsettled rear end, I think that may have been too much limiting, not enough droop.

After I posted this I looked over the car very carefully, rear end seemed like not enough travel, so I took one of the spacers out and replaced it with a much thinner one, rear droop seems to match my 22/JRX now. Front feels fine, but afraid more droop will cause more chassis lean and give me a new problem to tackle.

I need to look at a spring chart, not sure if your silver/blue is softer or stiffer than my black/green.
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Re: RC10 CE Set Up and Race Discussion

Post by farmer »

JK Racing wrote:inline front axles, standard buggy wheelbase (assuming that is short).

rear wing is the JC 6" high clearance

Very high traction damp clay indoor, smooth, if it dries out, it blue grooves quickly

Rear diff is butter smooth, the "flick" test gets me 1 1/2 to 2 full revolutions, no slipping. Slipper will lift the front about an inch.

rear camber is stock CE, under wing tube, only mount available at the hub

brakes 100%, I can lock up the rear end and slide at will

I did attempt to stand the shocks up 1 hole, it rotated a bit better, but still had the unsettled rear end, I think that may have been too much limiting, not enough droop.

After I posted this I looked over the car very carefully, rear end seemed like not enough travel, so I took one of the spacers out and replaced it with a much thinner one, rear droop seems to match my 22/JRX now. Front feels fine, but afraid more droop will cause more chassis lean and give me a new problem to tackle.

I need to look at a spring chart, not sure if your silver/blue is softer or stiffer than my black/green.
its stiffer
also when i ment camber how much you running in your rear tires
can you stab the brake in the air to get the nose to drop?
my spelling not so good! but i can DRIVE the wheels off anything!

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Re: RC10 CE Set Up and Race Discussion

Post by JK Racing »

farmer wrote:also when i ment camber how much you running in your rear tires
I run 2 degrees all around
farmer wrote:can you stab the brake in the air to get the nose to drop?
nope
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Re: RC10 CE Set Up and Race Discussion

Post by Charlie don't surf »

Silver's are one step up from green, blues are 3 up from black-


Joey, here is mine on a track so tracky that we can run slicks-

FRONT
25deg caster (way better turn in than the 30 on high bite)
32.5# front, 2 limiters
.71 shocks and stock CE tower upper and inside, outside lower
#2 pistons, Brown springs
2 deg toe in (for stability), -1/2 camber
2 washers under ballstud on steering arms (stock inline)
front ride height @ 23mm
1oz nose weight over front body mount hole
standard front wheelbase

MIDDLE
Chassis trimmed to 21mm
battery as far forward as allowed (right against servo) (Turnigy 5300/ large)
1/2 oz behind ESC on left side, 1/2 oz behind and 1/4 oz ahead of rec on right

REAR

3deg toe per side (T2) with stock antisquat
0deg 10t rear hubs
longest camberlink option
-1 camber
1.32 shocks/ 1.02 shaft, #1 piston (drilled out to .54), 30w oil, 3 standard (thin) limiters
Top inner (2nd from outside on worlds tower) mount, lower outside
Green rear springs 21mm ride height
Long wheelbase setting
Graphite trans brace, B4 wing mount, 2 washers between motorplate and rear chassis.

Tires vary depending on track conditions, I've found that the stickier the track and tire- the more the buggy needs droop, where the B4/TLR etc transfer weight into forward momentum the RC10 and it's stubby arms and camberlinks and swept front arms transfer weight vertically more, and once the chassis has settled you can dig in- until then it feels like its riding "on" the track instead of "in" the track-
it also handles agressive air way way way better like this too-

Also, this buggy does well being thrown into everywhere- but 100% brake is too much, there are too many changes to the rear geometry under braking to go more than 80-85% without rotating a bunch.

Surprising to me, I tried to run the car limited out- low and hugged down on high bite, and found it tremendously skatey everywhere, where my B4.1 just developed more corner speeds the CE lost it-

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Re: RC10 CE Set Up and Race Discussion

Post by Jay Dub »

Reg's setup is really close to mine. The only major difference I see is that I run a stiffer rear spring. Usually silvers, but occasionally blue. I found in most situations, it gave me more rear bite, while keeping the chasis flatter -this also helped with the steering (more consistent through the turn). BTW 25* blocks are a must for most tracks. I am not sure what you are running, but sounds like 30*'s. Also, on a treaded tire, you should'nt really run more than 1* camber either way, the tires really aren't designed to run out of this range.

Also, it sounds as if you need to cut down your wing. A common misconception is that a bigger wing is better. Once the weight distribution is sorted, you need to trim the wing (wicker area) to allow for control in air. Cut off a 1/4" at a time until you are satisfied with the in air results. Another side affect of the trimming is that it really helps with is consistency. A smaller wicker area will allow the car to transfer from straight line to turning at speed with greater consistency. Because, as you turn the car (especially in high speed, or tight corners) the direction of air flow changes from a straight on to the wing, to a angled aproach into the wing (from the side). This allows the air to difuse and become disturbed. This disturbed air provides little downforce. So, your transitions from straight to turn, to straight again will provide smaller changes in downforce on the rear of the car. Any loss in traction will be tuned into or out of the car with chassis setup. Basically, if you have a really high downforce wing, you will have the weight (eg. downforce) coming into and out of play as the car changes direction. A smaller wicker area will help to negate this. -Jeff

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Re: RC10 CE Set Up and Race Discussion

Post by Lonestar »

Hi guys

I raised that question on a couple of my RC10 resto threads but never found a listening ear... sounds like this might be the place :)

My take on the RC10 front geometry with the std shocks/tower is that it doesn't like the tall sidewall, modern 2.2 tires. The front end was designed to work with arms level in conjunction with smaller tires from bitd... if you want proper ride height with modern tires, you need to remove some load of the front spring collars to lower the chassis (since the tires are taller) otherwise the chassis sits too high and traction rolls with modern tires' grip - this means front arms that are now in "V" shape, with less front travel and a font suspension that bottoms out and bounces (arms hit shock bodies, not chassis hits ground) when going hard over obstacles, for instance jump faces("could NOT get the nose down over the extra large triple/roller or quad") , and there is less mass transfer to the front when braking ("initial turn in was push")...

Jeff, Reg, and the others who've modernly raced the RC10 with success - what's your take on this? Am I missing sthing?

Paul
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Re: RC10 CE Set Up and Race Discussion

Post by kaiser »

+1 lonestar. even with the WOIN cars, it's impossible to get the front arms level and have proper ride height.

this is probably the main reason that when i test and tune my vintage rides for the vonats my jrx2 always gets the nod and the WOIN sits in the pits. the jrx's seem to take to modern 2.2 rubber much better then the rc10.

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Re: RC10 CE Set Up and Race Discussion

Post by Charlie don't surf »

Jay Dub wrote: Also, it sounds as if you need to cut down your wing. A common misconception is that a bigger wing is better. Once the weight distribution is sorted, you need to trim the wing (wicker area) to allow for control in air. Cut off a 1/4" at a time until you are satisfied with the in air results. Another side affect of the trimming is that it really helps with is consistency. A smaller wicker area will allow the car to transfer from straight line to turning at speed with greater consistency. Because, as you turn the car (especially in high speed, or tight corners) the direction of air flow changes from a straight on to the wing, to a angled aproach into the wing (from the side). This allows the air to difuse and become disturbed. This disturbed air provides little downforce. So, your transitions from straight to turn, to straight again will provide smaller changes in downforce on the rear of the car. Any loss in traction will be tuned into or out of the car with chassis setup. Basically, if you have a really high downforce wing, you will have the weight (eg. downforce) coming into and out of play as the car changes direction. A smaller wicker area will help to negate this. -Jeff
Killer discription of a key tuning aspect of buggy! I run the 6.5" Jcon HC wing most of the time @ one wicker line (but they are super fragile so I carry 4 back ups :?) but when the track is really really moist I switch to the Jcon 6" high flow with 1/8" exposed wicker (actually below the last molded cut line)- I tried the Proline High Flow wings as well (on all my cars) and didn't like how they stuck up at least 3/8 higher in the air and had no attack angle, plus you have a 3/8" rounded wicker no matter how you trim-
all the cars (especially my 44.1) hated that wing!


Lonestar wrote:Hi guys

I raised that question on a couple of my RC10 resto threads but never found a listening ear... sounds like this might be the place :)

My take on the RC10 front geometry with the std shocks/tower is that it doesn't like the tall sidewall, modern 2.2 tires. The front end was designed to work with arms level in conjunction with smaller tires from bitd... if you want proper ride height with modern tires, you need to remove some load of the front spring collars to lower the chassis (since the tires are taller) otherwise the chassis sits too high and traction rolls with modern tires' grip - this means front arms that are now in "V" shape, with less front travel and a font suspension that bottoms out and bounces (arms hit shock bodies, not chassis hits ground) when going hard over obstacles, for instance jump faces("could NOT get the nose down over the extra large triple/roller or quad") , and there is less mass transfer to the front when braking ("initial turn in was push")... Jeff, Reg, and the others who've modernly raced the RC10 with success - what's your take on this? Am I missing sthing?

Paul
The tallest front tire I have (HB Fullshot mounted on Proline wide B3 rims with Jcon And-1 inserts) are +3.25mm over my Proline Wide Fives mounted on B2 2.15 standard rims, which relates to an additional +1.75mm ride height in the front. All the other ribbed tires are within 2mm overall, and my Proline Scrubs with AKA inserts are actually smaller :lol:.

I had attempted to address that exact issue however with my "Harris" type car, using the B4 front caster blocks and steering arms- I shaved the top and bottom meat on the junction where the kingpin intersects, and then shimmed the axle carrier/steering arm up and down via 1mm shims on between the steering arm and caster block and it may have made a difference......but the geometry changes in that front caster/axle system were too great to overcome and notice anything :lol:

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Re: RC10 CE Set Up and Race Discussion

Post by JK Racing »

Jay Dub wrote:BTW 25* blocks are a must for most tracks.
99% sure I have 25's on there, they are stock out of a Worlds kit
Jay Dub wrote:Also, on a treaded tire, you should'nt really run more than 1* camber either way, the tires really aren't designed to run out of this range.
Will change that, thank you
Jay Dub wrote:Also, it sounds as if you need to cut down your wing.
Currently running 2 lines on the wicker, I was running the standard CE wing (I think) with zero wicker earlier in the day, but busted that wing. Will trim it down to 1 before the next track outing.

Going to attempt this Saturday again, same track. I will post pics of the car how it sits now, just to see if anything else jumps out at ya.


Love the discussion guys, hence starting this thread, not only to solve my issues, but a general discussion topic and greater overall knowledge 8) 8)
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Re: RC10 CE Set Up and Race Discussion

Post by Charlie don't surf »

Stock worlds are 30's, the 25's are PN 6215 and damn hard to find-

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Re: RC10 CE Set Up and Race Discussion

Post by JK Racing »

these are the carriers (not the same chassis though)

Image
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Re: RC10 CE Set Up and Race Discussion

Post by Charlie don't surf »

Those do look like 25's......

What kind of steering are you using? and or servo saver at all?

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Re: RC10 CE Set Up and Race Discussion

Post by JK Racing »

houge & small kimbrough
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