pics loaded...Narrow arm, old gold pan converting to Worlds

[pcrussell50]

So I got an original gold pan RC10 back in the spring of '86 after working winter break as a starving first year college student. (Freshly back from living in Australia, for my Aussie mates), I splurged and got the full ball bearing kit. I wish I remember if it was Edinger or Cadillac, and I just threw away the tattered box not long before I discovered this site. Now I wish I kept it so I could know.

History:

1986: I used it as a basher for a couple of years, then in summer of '88 or '89 (I forget), I took it racing in Novice class at the now long-gone track at the Del Mar fairgrounds, which itself used to be the Del Mar skate ranch. That summer, I managed to take a podium in enough A-mains to get kicked out of Novice class and into whatever was the regular class. Hooboy, that was a whole different ball game. I was getting killed, and at that point I lost interest and gave up. What I had discovered in Novice was that all I had to do was sandbag: not crash or spin, and I would do great. Not so, once I left novice. Now I had to have both driving and setup skills, and I had neither.

2007: Hadn't done any RC since I retired my 1986 Gold pan in '88 or '89, but someone on my sports car racing forum (I had gotten into road course racing full scale cars) encouraged my to try a certain RC airplane that his buddy had designed. It was brushless and lipo, and after many many many crashes I figured out how to fly it

2012: . Since my airplane, I had figured out the world of brushless and lipo, and started wondering how to convert my old RC10 to BL/lipo, and this site helped immensely. Late fall of 2012, I bought a "takeoff" stock Reedy 3300kv RC10xxx version (IOW, I don't know which version it came out of), brushless motor and XP speed controller off ebay, brand new, never used or installed. And a Gens Ace 4000mah, 2s, and a FlySky radio, all thanks to this place. It works awesome in BL/lipo/2.4ghz guise, but I worry about the original 6-gear tranny.

2013-present day: Used it for bashing, pavement only, with a 20 year old set of Bolink foamie tires. It had the accumulated filth of nearly 30 years, which is being cleaned off now.

2015: I've stripped out the gold pan down to bare tub, drilled it for stealth, cleaned it, and will be installing a WC wide front with bellcrank steering. I'm sure I'll get around to doing a Worlds treatment on the rear too.

This will be mostly for light duty racing and nostalgic shelf queening. The racing will be teaching my tomboy daughter how to race. I will probably get an RC8.2e or 8.3e if they come out before I'm done with this retro project, for racing myself.

OK, the pics of what we have so far...

Two of how it's been for the last 30 years (except for the brushless motor):





How it looks right now that I've begun the prep work for the WC front end:

My original A-stamp, now drilled, sitting on top of the ebay B-stamp I used as a drill guide. Old tape removed using WD40, then cleaned using acetone:


Closer view of the drilled holes and the actual "A" stamp:


Stock 30yo back half, except for the Reedy 3300kv brushless from another newer TA kit, now punishing the poor 6-gear. 30 years of grime shows well here.


Stock 30yo front now. Does anybody use the anti-roll bar? I put it on 30 years ago and never took it off.


The modern electrics that were powering the dirty old beast until yesterday's teardown and prep for the WC front began:


A couple of the smooth feeling ebay stealth that will go in:




Some ebay shocks I might try instead of the old gold ones. Should I use these? I _think_ they were off a B3, IMS:


That's all for now. More when I get back home from a work trip.

-Peter

[Johnny-RC]

Looks like a fun project man. Are you going to keep it gold or get creative?

[pcrussell50]

Just keeping it gold for now. I'll be converting it to world's spec and then spending the quality time learning about setup that I never did when I got it new back in college, to see the most it's capable of, and to teach my little girl how to drive too. santa barbara is pretty small and doesn't have a vintage class so i'll probably get killed in the races, but I want to feel i'm getting the most possible out of it before I buy something newer and more competitive, if it turns out the rc10 worlds spec just isn't good enough. I'm a big believer in being a good driver and mechanic BEFORE going out and buying the fancy new stuff.

-peter

[Johnny-RC]

Yeah I know the feeling. Been trying to get a vintage class to grow up here for a long time. Almost had a little group together, then it faded. I'm in the same boat as you, driving is number one, you cant buy speed if you cant drive. But above all the RC10 holds a lot of nostalgia for me and its just fun to drive either way.

Looking forward to your progress. I might be doing something similar soon.

[pcrussell50]

Man'o'live... Little thing after little thing. By the time this is done, I could have just bought a rere kit. So much to consider in the way of decisions. For example: what if you want to keep using original classic wheel designs, (i have originals, JC racing, and some 2.2" wheels from the 90's), but want to use 0 degree rear hubs? Well, TA makes a CVA axle kit in 1/4" instead of the new skool 3/16". So I order it. The important pieces are correct, but all the shims and roll pins that came in the bag for the 1/4" kit are sized 3/16, so a good bit of my $25.99 for the 1/4" CVA kit was wasted. So now I have no shims that fit, no roll pins that fit, and no crush spacer that fits between the non flanged bearings for the 0 degree hubs. But where there's a will there's a way. I find that if I substitute a flanged bearing for one of the unflanged, I don't need spacers. Still not sure what to do about the lack of a crush spacer. Maybe I don't need one?

-Peter

[DaveM]

Hi Peter,

I don't run the crush spacer.

Cheers, Dave.

[dragon_av3]

That will be some fun work..

[pcrussell50]

I'm out of town on a trip till Saturday and I'll put up some pics then...

Got the rear already built except I ran out of 0.30" ballstuds for the hubs so I can't close it all up with the camber links. I have a flanged 1/4" bearings for the inboard side of the 0 degree hubs, and unflanged 1/4" bearings on the outboard side with a thin shim. This results in a perfect fit for the 1/4" CVA axle I went with.

In front, on of the holes in on of the 30yo white suspension mounting blocks is split, so the screw just spins. Just ordered some front suspension mounts and 0.30" ballstuds from A main. Should be here by Thursday. My old split front mount is white. The ones I ordered from amain are black. No biggie to me as I am not making any attempt whatsoever at period-corectness, just trying to capture the handling benefits of the most developed of the original rc10 line.

Quick question for you who are knowledgeable about original rc10's... The stealth I bought off ebay a couple of years ago came with a black motor/tranny mount. It also looks like it has some sort of slipper or clutch mechanism sandwiched between the spur gear and stealth case. Does that mean it might have come off an original worlds?

And another question... When I drilled my A-stamp gold pan for stealth, I used an ebay B-stamp pan as a drill guide, which was black, but not milled with the lightening grooves. What version of rc10 might that one have been?

And finally the old ebay stealth has a felt pad or gasket where the stealth case meets the mount. What about it?

-Peter

[pcrussell50]

Here is a quickie of the rear end, minus the camber links, with the 0 degree caster blocks, 1/4" CVD axles, with the flanged bearing on the inside (you can't see it), and the unflanged bearing on the outboard side. you can see the black motor/tranny mount that came with the stealth:


And here is the front, being held in place by my thumb, because one of the 30yo front suspension mounts is cracked and needs replacing. the new replacements will be black, if the picture on amain's web site is to be believed. also the front shock tower is not black and not from a world's but someone told me it was geometrically correct for the wide arm front suspension. i bought it a couple of years ago. also, the steering links are not installed yet (of course), until the front suspension goes back on with new mounts to the pan:


-Peter

[Bottom Feeder]

I'm surprised no one has tried talking you out of this yet.

Yes, the original gold pan RC10 and the Worlds RC10 have the same DNA but there are so many small things that are different about them, which you have found out the hard way. You're probably committed now but I would suggest cleaning up what you have and returning your gold pan back to stock since it was a complete runner, then go through what parts you've bought and make a second car out of spares and eBay parts. I say this because you'll have so many pieces of the original car left over you might as well leave it as it was.

Instead of making a 'new' car and having a box of leftovers, why not keep your complete classic gold pan roller for the shelf and then build what will essentially be a frankenstein'd equivalent of a Team Car to run? Looks like you have a new transmission and motor plate, rear axles, rear bulkhead, rear hub carriers, shock towers, shocks, complete front suspension, steering gear and a second chassis. That's about 85% of a second car right there.

Believe me, I'm all for building RC10s out of spare parts. But as you mentioned earlier, $200 on a new Worlds Car probably would have been a better investment...

----------------------------------------

To answer some of your questions:

- The Stealth transmission came out the same time Associated released the RC10T trucks and the RC10 Team Cars. Both had black motor plates. The transmission was basically unchanged throughout its original run.

- Yes, that's a slipper behind the spur gear. It was standard issue for all cars that came with a Stealth. Older ones had thrust bearings under the spring, newer ones had bronze bushings. They are functionally equivalent, just simpler and cheaper to produce.

- That felt gasket kept dust and debris out of the pinion and spur gears since the Stealth did not press up flat against the motor plate. Apparently the racers did not use them hence the reason why they were not included in the rere Worlds but I sure do wish they made them again. If you have one, keep it in good shape because they are hard to find and expensive if you do.

- Trucks and Team Cars had black unmilled chassis. They are essentially the same as the gold chassis but there are small differences, the battery cup screw hole locations being the main thing. They are most commonly stamped B. The milled chassis was for the Worlds Car only. I've heard the aluminum was a different grade but I think that was just a rumor.

- No one ever made crush spacers for the 1/4" axles. Just make sure they are shimmed correctly so the dogbones don't bind in the Stealth outdrives at full up travel or fall out at full droop. And yes, I noticed what you were saying about the wrong spacers in that CVA kit. Even the ones in the official Associated pic show 3/16" shims so that's a big mistake on their part. Hopefully they fixed it on later batches. I'm sure if you called they they would make it right.

- Yes, the top row of holes on that front Team Car shock tower you have are in the same location as the Worlds tower. However the Worlds tower has an additional inner camber link mounting hole.

- If those are B2 or B3 shocks then you will run into some trouble. The rears are 1.32" bodies and the preferred 1.02" shafts (use with one 1/8" spacer inside), but the fronts have the too-long .89" bodies but the correct .71 shafts. Caps and hardware are the same.

If you're going to continue with this project (and I still don't recommend that you do), one of the best things you can do is download all of the manuals from Associated:

Originals:

http://www.teamassociated.com/pdf/cars_and_trucks/RC10/Team/rc10_manual.pdf
http://www.teamassociated.com/pdf/cars_and_trucks/RC10/Original/teamcar_manuala.pdf
http://www.teamassociated.com/pdf/cars_and_trucks/RC10/Original/teamcar_manualb.pdf
http://www.teamassociated.com/pdf/cars_and_trucks/RC10/Original/teamcar_manualc.pdf
http://www.teamassociated.com/pdf/cars_and_trucks/RC10/Worlds_Car/WorldsCar_manuala.pdf
http://www.teamassociated.com/pdf/cars_and_trucks/RC10/Worlds_Car/WorldsCar_manualb.pdf
http://www.teamassociated.com/pdf/cars_and_trucks/RC10/Worlds_Car/WorldsCar_manualc.pdf

Re-releases:

http://www.teamassociated.com/pdf/cars_and_trucks/RC10_Classic/RC10_Classic_Kit/manual_RC10Classic_2013.pdf
http://www.teamassociated.com/pdf/cars_and_trucks/RC10WC/Worlds_Car/RC10WC-Manual-updated.pdf

Good luck.

[pcrussell50]

Whoa! Very very good, informative and insightful post. Definitely food for thought.

on edit: in fact, you've convinced me. i'm going to do the mother of all pivots and return my gold pan to a stock rolling shelf queen and build my "worlds" with the black tub and black motor mount with the stealth that came with it. everything about my old gold pan was working fine, even under mild (stock TA/Reedy 3300kv) brushless power. why mess with success?

Back to more nuts'n'bolts, I wonder if there is a useful DIY substitute for the felt? Iow is it's value due to collectibility? Or due to the fact its function is hard to replace?

-Peter

[Bottom Feeder]

I think the high price comes from its rarity due to it being pretty much the one part Associated has not re-made. The original felt ones tended to disintegrate after a while. If you're trying to restore a complete Team Car or similar, you're screwed unless you're willing to shell out some cash. It was like a $2 part but they sell online for over $30 now.

There were some foam rubber aftermarket ones available but they are even more rare and pricey than the original Associated felt gaskets now. It seems (to me at least) like such an easy thing for someone with the right connections to re-create and make a few bucks.

[pcrussell50]

well, now that i've been convinced to save my original gold pan as shelf decoration, I am proceeding ahead with using the black B stamp and original USA-spec stealth tranny I already had, to build a worlds knockoff... for what must be as much as Amain charges for a rere worlds kit (at least their current $200 sale price). sigh. i'm not really surprised. i know how parts add up versus kits, and that there are always more parts you need than you thought you did.

anyhow, it's a roller now... still built on the gold pan. when i get back from this week's work trip, and the black world's nose piece arrives from Amain, i'll transfer the front and rear sub-assemblies to the black B-stamp.

good thing i'm not striving for originality as it appears some rere worlds parts are not available outside the kit... like the black rear arms. can't find them anywhere on Amain's web site. who knows what other worlds parts are not available outside the kit? as i said, this will be a driver not a shelfer, but it makes me wonder if there will be shortages for rc10 parts in general, going forward?

Say, before the pivot, I drilled the old A-stamp for stealth... using the B-stamp as a drill guide. It came out... perfectly... have i DEcreased the value of my A-stamp by drilling it?

-Peter

[Bottom Feeder]

I don't believe there is anything that is ONLY available in the kits. Black rear arms are available from Tower Hobbies (among other places): http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXEDYW&P=7 . Even Amazon has them.

And yes, the cash value of your A-stamp has decreased with the Stealth holes, but really, does it matter?

[pcrussell50]

Weird that Amain doesn't even list them. Up till now, they were my go-to place. Super convenient. But not when their selection is incomplete.

-Peter