Optima rerelease vs optima mid / Lazer ZX-S evo

Moderators: scr8p, klavy69

FC5687
Approved Member
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:29 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Optima rerelease vs optima mid / Lazer ZX-S evo

Post by FC5687 »

Any thought about the Optima rerelease with latest hop ups such as clutch, gunmetal gear set for powerful brushless and lipo, ball diff with belt and few others, and up against other successful belt drive from the company?

Biggs
Regular Member
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:27 am
Location: Sarasota, Florida USA
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Optima rerelease vs optima mid / Lazer ZX-S evo

Post by Biggs »

If you have or can get a Lazer ZX-S Evo, it is a horrible car. Pm me and I will take it off your hands... :mrgreen: You are highly unlikely to have, or ever find one.

If you want this car to go brushless, get the Optima Turbo re-re. The Optima (base/original) re-re is awesome too, but the Turbo is a couple steps up. Either of those is a good choice.

The Optima Mid and the Lazer ZX, ZX-R, ZX-S (and whatever other of the original ones I have forgotten) are 20-30 plus year old cars. And none of them are exactly easy to get a hold of to begin with. I have spent about a year looking for a Lazer. I also have two Mids, but don't see many decent ones come up for sale. Oh sure, you can buy a vintage still in box Optima Mid kit. (And if you have enough to afford that, then by all means run brushless in it!!!) But to go brushless on these cars you need to know what you are doing, dial it down, and plan on breaking hard to find parts.

The re-re's will take brushless right out of the box. No upgrades even needed. The vintage cars are not worth it unless spending serious scratch on them isn't a concern. If not, then grab a Lazer. There are a bunch of durability upgrades for it on Shapeways. For that matter, same with the Mid I guess. I haven't looked as far into the Mids as I have the Lazer. But after you get a Lazer (or Mid) expect to spend at least half as much again or more on upgrade parts. Just the upgrades for my Lazer sitting in my Shapeways cart were $200. About another $200 needed elsewhere, and that isn't with electronics factored in. Oh, and no body yet either. When that car is finished, an easy $600-1000 will have gone into it.

Optima Turbo re-re, $379(ish), and electronics, DONE. You could outfit it for as low as $75 (sure, easily go cheaper but that is for decent quality at least), or about $250 for Kyosho brand LeMans Brushless setup. My receivers cost me less than $10 piece. Battery packs you may also have.

isobarik
Approved Member
Posts: 615
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:09 am
Location: Sweden
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Optima rerelease vs optima mid / Lazer ZX-S evo

Post by isobarik »

The simplicity of the zxs makes it easy to re make it has just 4 plastic trees front rear gearbox fint upper susp and rear susp/tower other then that its carbon and standard Lazer suspension , just copy modifiers layshaft for b4style slipper ( kyosho) and Youre done. With very small changed its possible to make it stranger and simpelt but a bit harder to work on

Optima rather complex design its old also so maybe thats why

Mid when crashing front you have to replacable front gearbox since the inner hingpin holder is molded in the front gearbox

Any way just nu thoughts

Mvh iso

FC5687
Approved Member
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:29 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Optima rerelease vs optima mid / Lazer ZX-S evo

Post by FC5687 »

isobarik wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:04 pm The simplicity of the zxs makes it easy to re make it has just 4 plastic trees front rear gearbox fint upper susp and rear susp/tower other then that its carbon and standard Lazer suspension , just copy modifiers layshaft for b4style slipper ( kyosho) and Youre done. With very small changed its possible to make it stranger and simpelt but a bit harder to work on

Optima rather complex design its old also so maybe thats why

Mid when crashing front you have to replacable front gearbox since the inner hingpin holder is molded in the front gearbox

Any way just nu thoughts

Mvh iso
As far as I know the optima has one belt rather than dual belts in the transmission. It is not all that complex based on what I built in the 80s". I know very little about zxs

FC5687
Approved Member
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:29 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Optima rerelease vs optima mid / Lazer ZX-S evo

Post by FC5687 »

Biggs wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:11 am If you have or can get a Lazer ZX-S Evo, it is a horrible car. Pm me and I will take it off your hands... :mrgreen: You are highly unlikely to have, or ever find one.

If you want this car to go brushless, get the Optima Turbo re-re. The Optima (base/original) re-re is awesome too, but the Turbo is a couple steps up. Either of those is a good choice.

The Optima Mid and the Lazer ZX, ZX-R, ZX-S (and whatever other of the original ones I have forgotten) are 20-30 plus year old cars. And none of them are exactly easy to get a hold of to begin with. I have spent about a year looking for a Lazer. I also have two Mids, but don't see many decent ones come up for sale. Oh sure, you can buy a vintage still in box Optima Mid kit. (And if you have enough to afford that, then by all means run brushless in it!!!) But to go brushless on these cars you need to know what you are doing, dial it down, and plan on breaking hard to find parts.

The re-re's will take brushless right out of the box. No upgrades even needed. The vintage cars are not worth it unless spending serious scratch on them isn't a concern. If not, then grab a Lazer. There are a bunch of durability upgrades for it on Shapeways. For that matter, same with the Mid I guess. I haven't looked as far into the Mids as I have the Lazer. But after you get a Lazer (or Mid) expect to spend at least half as much again or more on upgrade parts. Just the upgrades for my Lazer sitting in my Shapeways cart were $200. About another $200 needed elsewhere, and that isn't with electronics factored in. Oh, and no body yet either. When that car is finished, an easy $600-1000 will have gone into it.

Optima Turbo re-re, $379(ish), and electronics, DONE. You could outfit it for as low as $75 (sure, easily go cheaper but that is for decent quality at least), or about $250 for Kyosho brand LeMans Brushless setup. My receivers cost me less than $10 piece. Battery packs you may also have.
Thanks for the details! But the optima turbo doesn't come with hop up such as ball diff, gunmetal parts and 7075 chassis etc.

And the total cost of those hope ups is at the same level of that zx7 regardless of the cost of turbo optima kit itself. Only hop ups is around 500 bucks. This is what I am wondering.

FC5687
Approved Member
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:29 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Optima rerelease vs optima mid / Lazer ZX-S evo

Post by FC5687 »

Also the optima's rear motor positioning is what I concern

Biggs
Regular Member
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:27 am
Location: Sarasota, Florida USA
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Optima rerelease vs optima mid / Lazer ZX-S evo

Post by Biggs »

Either you made some typos, or you have your models confused. You said ZX-S Evo, and NOT the ZX7. These are COMPLETELY different beasts. The ZX-S Evo was a very limited release of 200 cars in 1996, plus some factory works cars for the 1995 race season. If you manage to find one, expect to pay EASILY more than $2000 for it. Hard to say what they will actually go for as they come up so rarely, and are more likely to be sold inner circle and word of mouth than on eBay.

So you were comparing a rare as hens teeth vintage limited production factory team car, with an easily available vintage re-re, and a harder to find Mid. These are more alike than comparing the Optima Turbo re-re to the modern ZX7. The modern ZX7 that can easily purchased online, new.

Out of the three cars you mentioned in your title, the Optima Turbo is ready for brushless. The rest, are not. I don't know what internals the Optima Turbo re-re come with, but if you need ball diff upgrades for it I am sure that are MUCH easier to find than for the others.

The Evo might have come with ball diffs, but as far as I can tell the Lazer ZX, ZXR, and ZXS didn't. And again the Evo is a moot point, unless you have a secret line on one. The early Lazer have a belt drive to the front, and a short belt drive from the center diff to the rear one. The Optima Mid has a rear gearbox with the mid mounted motor, and a single belt drive to the front. The Optima Turbo has the rear mounted motor, gearbox, and either a belt or chain to the front.

The Lazer ZX7, is an inline mid motor mount like most modern cars, and shaft driven instead of belts. It is not a vintage car. It is the best choice, if you do not want a vintage car. The Lazer XZ-5 now is sill considered sorta vintage I guess. It was the first of the Lazer line to be shaft driven. I am not sure if it was a brushless or brushed car. It would likely be fine on brushless.

The Optima Mid is the worst choice for a brushless setup. First off ball diffs, some had them some didn't. And as it is vintage, don't bet on it coming with what it is supposed to (both of mine were supposed to have ball diffs, one didn't). Unless you buy one new in the box. And they don't go cheaply. Right now they are also going close to $2k. But oddly the Mid even though MUCH more common, doesn't seem to have the same aftermarket support the early Lazers have.

The Mid probably wouldn't be too hard to convert to brushless, but you will need to do some serious drivetrain upgrades or massively dial down the brushless setup.

I have two Optima Mids, an original Optima Turbo (built as a Javelin), and a vintage Lazer ZX-S (non Evo sadly). I don't have any of the shaft driven lasers, but I plan on getting a ZX-5 when I can find one. They are sorta rare.

Biggs
Regular Member
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:27 am
Location: Sarasota, Florida USA
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Optima rerelease vs optima mid / Lazer ZX-S evo

Post by Biggs »

Oh, it also depends on what your goals for these cars are? Are you trying to do vintage racing series? Or playing around? You on a track? Modern style? Or old loose dirt backyard/BMX style?

One more thing about the early Lazer, they were not exactly fast cars. They had suspension geometry issues. Easily fixed with upgrade parts though...

FC5687
Approved Member
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:29 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Optima rerelease vs optima mid / Lazer ZX-S evo

Post by FC5687 »

Biggs wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:44 pm Either you made some typos, or you have your models confused. You said ZX-S Evo, and NOT the ZX7. These are COMPLETELY different beasts. The ZX-S Evo was a very limited release of 200 cars in 1996, plus some factory works cars for the 1995 race season. If you manage to find one, expect to pay EASILY more than $2000 for it. Hard to say what they will actually go for as they come up so rarely, and are more likely to be sold inner circle and word of mouth than on eBay.

So you were comparing a rare as hens teeth vintage limited production factory team car, with an easily available vintage re-re, and a harder to find Mid. These are more alike than comparing the Optima Turbo re-re to the modern ZX7. The modern ZX7 that can easily purchased online, new.

Out of the three cars you mentioned in your title, the Optima Turbo is ready for brushless. The rest, are not. I don't know what internals the Optima Turbo re-re come with, but if you need ball diff upgrades for it I am sure that are MUCH easier to find than for the others.

The Evo might have come with ball diffs, but as far as I can tell the Lazer ZX, ZXR, and ZXS didn't. And again the Evo is a moot point, unless you have a secret line on one. The early Lazer have a belt drive to the front, and a short belt drive from the center diff to the rear one. The Optima Mid has a rear gearbox with the mid mounted motor, and a single belt drive to the front. The Optima Turbo has the rear mounted motor, gearbox, and either a belt or chain to the front.

The Lazer ZX7, is an inline mid motor mount like most modern cars, and shaft driven instead of belts. It is not a vintage car. It is the best choice, if you do not want a vintage car. The Lazer XZ-5 now is sill considered sorta vintage I guess. It was the first of the Lazer line to be shaft driven. I am not sure if it was a brushless or brushed car. It would likely be fine on brushless.

The Optima Mid is the worst choice for a brushless setup. First off ball diffs, some had them some didn't. And as it is vintage, don't bet on it coming with what it is supposed to (both of mine were supposed to have ball diffs, one didn't). Unless you buy one new in the box. And they don't go cheaply. Right now they are also going close to $2k. But oddly the Mid even though MUCH more common, doesn't seem to have the same aftermarket support the early Lazers have.

The Mid probably wouldn't be too hard to convert to brushless, but you will need to do some serious drivetrain upgrades or massively dial down the brushless setup.

I have two Optima Mids, an original Optima Turbo (built as a Javelin), and a vintage Lazer ZX-S (non Evo sadly). I don't have any of the shaft driven lasers, but I plan on getting a ZX-5 when I can find one. They are sorta rare.
Hi again!
I apologize not making it clear.

1) I think the total cost of those hop up parts for rerelease optima which is par with the asking price of modern zx7 doesn't make any sense. Unless hop up optima outperforms the modern zx7.

2) I'm interested to know whether the optima rerelease as good or better than Optima Mid and the Lazer ZX, ZX-R, ZX-S with or without hop up. Frankly, I know very little about the vintage kyosho except optima, but I have seen my friend drove the lazer back in early 90s, I preferred the Salute with belt and ball diff better at that moment.

3) here are personal preference for new modern off-road. Kyosho zx7, Serpent SDX4 Evo and Yokomo YZ4SF2. I am curious whether the optima able to hold th candle on the racing track compete with those 3.

FC5687
Approved Member
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:29 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Optima rerelease vs optima mid / Lazer ZX-S evo

Post by FC5687 »

Also I agree with you. Most shaft drive 4WD off-road made today look very similar. :D

Biggs
Regular Member
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:27 am
Location: Sarasota, Florida USA
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Optima rerelease vs optima mid / Lazer ZX-S evo

Post by Biggs »

What is your goal, and figure out your budget.

If your goal is vintage racing and you want to maximize your investment return, a brushless setup in the Optima re-re is the way to go. The Optima Mid is the next version up from the Optima. The Lazer ZX is the next in succession. These all fall into the vintage category. And are again in order of succession. The Lazer ZX5 is still probably falling in the vintage category and also in the hard to find, but again it is a more modern shaft drive. The Lazer ZX7 will be easy to find, and is a modern racer. I don't know how well it fares, but it has been out a while and seems to be popular. I am sure you can find some racer reviews of it.

All of these have their strengths and weaknesses. The Optima Turbo re-re will be the least amount of additional hunting for parts, it is ready to go out of the box when you toss a brushless setup in it. If you feel it still needs more, then the upgrades are likely out there. If you are racing modern classes, then the Optima Turbo doesn't likely make sense.

The Optima Mids are GREAT cars. They are not going to be any good against modern racers. And you will need to go through any vintage car and likely replace 1/2-3/4 of it to survive in vintage racing too. The Optima Mid is going to be a slightly better car on the track that the Optima Turbo, all things equal. But they aren't equal since you can put brushless into the Optima Turbo. Doing so to the Mid, will destroy parts. Hard to find parts.

If you want a fast modern car to compete against fast modern cars, buy a fast modern car. If you want fun nostalgia and are planning to do vintage racing, then the Optima Turbo can be fast option.

The Mid will require parts and work. Good luck finding one cheaply enough, and the parts cheaply enough to get it to that level. Collectors LOVE these! As mentioned above, the Mid is not a good choice in abusive environments. Ignore the Mid unless you want to sit in on your shelf, or drive it around your back yard now and then.

If you want a hardcore machine, but vintage still, then the Lazer ZX is the go to. As mentioned several posts above though, you will most likely need to build it from parts. You will spend some serious cash to build it. I think I have near $500 in mine, and it isn't even a runner yet. :oops:

So again, are you racing or just bashing about? If you are racing, are you racing modern classes, vintage classes, or you want one car for both?

Better yet, do what the rest of us do, buy them ALL. Then you won't have to decide. :lol:

Biggs
Regular Member
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:27 am
Location: Sarasota, Florida USA
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Optima rerelease vs optima mid / Lazer ZX-S evo

Post by Biggs »


FC5687
Approved Member
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:29 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Optima rerelease vs optima mid / Lazer ZX-S evo

Post by FC5687 »

I never owned any optima in the past or its derivatives. This is because I loved my tamiya /op up boomerang back in the time. I have bought the Kypsho Rocky for fun back in th mid 87 and drov n it for short period of time.

Lots of my friends like the Lazer though.

My current selection for Kyosho would be the ZX7 and absolutely not the Optima rerelease even any of its hop up parts. If belt drive vehicle is a must, Schumacher L1 Evo is the one as it costs way less than the total of /op up parts for Optima rerelease excluding the cost of the kit itself.

  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post
  • My Turbo Optima, Optima Mid and Lazer ZX-R
    by wydraz » » in Kyosho Forum
    6 Replies
    1118 Views
    Last post by Coelacanth
  • Optima mid vs Lazer?
    by Twister » » in Kyosho Forum
    25 Replies
    4147 Views
    Last post by Welshy40
  • LWB Optima MID with Lazer suspension.
    by DennisM » » in Kyosho Forum
    18 Replies
    3312 Views
    Last post by bully
  • My Lazer ZXR-R and Optima Mid Turbo Special - Pics
    by Dieseler » » in Kyosho Forum
    5 Replies
    1012 Views
    Last post by Kyosho Fan2
  • Late LWB Optima Mid & Lazer differences??
    by DerbyDan » » in Kyosho Forum
    3 Replies
    899 Views
    Last post by adam lancia
  • When was the Optima Mid Custom Special released? Last Optima
    by mjtown » » in Kyosho Forum
    2 Replies
    1235 Views
    Last post by mjtown
  • Optima Mid and Turbo Optima Mid Differences
    by vintage AE » » in Kyosho Forum
    19 Replies
    6076 Views
    Last post by lin6499
  • Kyosho Optima Mid and Turbo Optima Mid
    by wydraz » » in Kyosho Forum
    7 Replies
    1947 Views
    Last post by Bo Wallen

Return to “Kyosho Re-Release Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No User AvatarCommonCrawl [Bot] and 0 guests