The Ultima RB/ST Racing Sports/Type-R Evo (II) Project

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The Ultima RB/ST Racing Sports/Type-R Evo (II) Project

Post by EvolutionRevolution »

About a month ago I received an EP Ultima ST Racing Sports in a lot (see attached pics), which was in somewhat better state than the auction showed (i.e. the transmission was actually included). On top of that it included some other bits and some new spares. I figured I would upgrade the ST to a improved version, but as I started receiving parts I unfortunately discovered this.

So instead I will be building something that approaches an EP Ultima ST Type-R Evo, which doesn't exist as an official release (only the GP truck and EP buggy were released as Evo versions), and the leftovers of the Racing Sports will be combined with the RB body to make a long wheelbase buggy (although I might buy the correct chassis to have the correct wheelbase...). The ST will hopefully become a nice basher, I always wanted a Stadium Truck. :mrgreen:

Bits collected so far:
Bought in lot:
- Ultima ST Racing Sports + body, broken rear arm mount & rotten tires. Missing drive shafts, mechanism deck, battery hold down bar, rear shock tower, rear shock tower mount, front body mount, gear cover, 1 front shock and servo mounts.
- Ultima RB Type-R front end, carbon reinforced rear shock tower mount, shock towers, battery hold down bar, cap screw set, CVDs, 2 front Twin Cap Pro shocks, 1 rear TC Pro shock, body, hard front plate (blue).
- Spares: RS-50 gear set x 1.5, UMW409 long rear suspension part, RS-55 diff case x3, SP-107V rear hubs, UM-401 front arm.
ultima st.jpg
ultima st.jpg (31.33 KiB) Viewed 3694 times
ultima st.jpg
ultima st.jpg (31.33 KiB) Viewed 3694 times
ultima st body.jpg
ultima st body.jpg (25.25 KiB) Viewed 3694 times
ultima st body.jpg
ultima st body.jpg (25.25 KiB) Viewed 3694 times
Previously owned:
- UM-406 Universal swing shaft x2
- UM-138 Universal swing shaft x2

Recently bought:
- UMW-105 and UMW-106 carbon reinforced shock towers
- UMW-121 Hard King Pin
- UMW-407 SP Carbon composit chassis (RB/with battery slot) + UMW-408 Special Rear chassis with battery slot (blue) - Buggy chassis, shorter wheel base will hopefully eliminate the lack of steering this chassis suffers from
- UM-105 rear suspension holders x2 (hopefully to be replaced by the hard alloy part on the truck)
- UM-112H hard 4.8 mm ball end
- UM-114 rear bumper
- UM-116 Outdrive diff half L
- UM-118 ball diff gear x2
- UM-119 diff ring
- UM-121 Diff adjusting screw
- UM-122 Torque control unit inner hub
- UM-124 Tensioner spring
- UM-125 Idler gear shaft
- UM-137 Drive pin & collar
- UM-303 Main Gear shaft
- UM-307 gear box
- UM-308 Idler gear
- UM-311 rear bumper hinge shaft
- UM-309 Disc stopper
- UM-313 Gear cover
- RS-12 front body mount
- W5183-01 fluorine shock case (L) + W5183-02 shock shaft (L) - to convert the short front shocks to long rear shocks
- W5182 Twin Cap Pro Shocks (M) for the front end

Ordered:
- UM-117 outdrive diff half R
- UM-126 front wheel shaft
- UMW-305 light slipper disc
- UMW-307 special motor plate (blue)

I plan to post some good comparison pictures of all the differences between Racing Sports and Type-R (Evo) parts. I also plan to measure all of the flat parts and shock towers and make CAD files for them, which I will send to Fibre-Lyte.

Some pics of the parts I've collected (not everything):
parts1.jpg
parts2.jpg

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Re: Project: EP Ultima ST Type-R Evo (+ LWB Ultima RB)

Post by EvolutionRevolution »

Oh wow. The differences between the Ultima ST Racing Sports and Type-R are much greater than what appears on first sight.

Assemblies and parts that can be swapped out:
- whole front end
- steering set-up (except steering posts, unless you replace the top plate)
- front end minus kick-up plate, steering, top plate
- kick-up plate
- top plate + steering posts
- shock towers
- shocks
- suspension arms
- outer hinge pins
- c-hub + front upright + front axle + kingpin assembly
- inner front hinge pins + front hinge pin holder + front suspension plate assembly
- rear hubs
- upper links
- steering links
- inner rear hinge pins + rear suspension holders assembly (you need to use UMW-102 if switching to Type-R hinge pins on a Racing Sports)
- rear hubs
- wheels + tires
- screws and nuts

Sounds like a great list, right?

What is not swappable, despite looking like it:
- chassis (different gearbox screw holes)
- gearbox (different screw holes + shape)
- motor plate (some holes are just 1 mm off) + gear cover
- gearbox internals (different gear sizes + different shafts + different bearings - what's written on some forums about them being swappable is nonsense)
- rear bumper (different shape)
- inner hinge pins without also changing the blocks holding them on the Racing Sports (there's nothing to stop the pins from falling out)
- plastic bushings in Racing Sports steering set-up look like they are replaceable with bearings - they're not.

It's not such a great list. To use the Type-R gearbox on a Racing Sports you need to replace 50% of the car. Furthermore, to get rid of the massive play in certain parts (steering assembly, front suspension) and the weak points another 25% needs to be replaced because not all parts are compatible - a lot are off by just a few mm, making me think Kyosho did it on purpose to sell more cars. :evil:

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Re: Project: EP Ultima ST Type-R Evo (+ LWB Ultima RB)

Post by EvolutionRevolution »

Gah, just discovered that Kyosho at one point updated the Type-R ball diff outdrive design :D , and at the same time managed to swap the diff half designation for both parts :roll: - so the old R(ight) diff half is the newer L(eft) diff half and the other way around :( , except that the parts bag header cards don't reflect this :evil: , so I bought the same diff half twice despite them having different part numbers :cry:
diff-half-issue.jpg
So in short:
- milled UM-117 = old non-milled UM-116
- milled UM-116 = old non-milled UM-117
Genius. :shock: :roll:

At least I just managed to find the other updated diff outdrive at an online shop.

Will get around to posting pics later this week (I hope).

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Re: Project: EP Ultima ST Type-R Evo & Ultima ST Racing Spor

Post by EvolutionRevolution »

One more incompatibility found:

Hard rear suspension holders can't be installed on the Racing Sports chassis without cutting up the chassis.

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Re: Project: EP Ultima ST Type-R Evo & Ultima ST Racing Spor

Post by EvolutionRevolution »

Time for some comparison pics.

Let's start with the chassis:
chassis1.jpg
Short Type-R UMW-407 buggy chassis, CF-reinforced vs. Racing Sports truck chassis. The Type-R chassis has a separate rear plate with different screw holes:
rear-plate-1.jpg
The front end, however, is almost precisely the same:
chassis2.jpg
The rest of the chassis has some differences in the screw holes, and of course the Type-R chassis has battery slots:
chassis3.jpg
chassis4.jpg
chassis5.jpg
Rear bumper differences:
rear-bumper-1.jpg
Type-R bumper has a separate alloy tube into which the screws go, and it also has stops built in to prevent the rear inner hinge pins from falling out. Furthermore, the rear bumpers don't work nicely with each other's motor plates.

Front bumpers:
front-bumpers.jpg
The Type-R bumper is on the right (I'm trying to put the Type-R parts on the right in general).

Front top plates:
front-top-plates-1.jpg
front-top-plates-2.jpg
On the Type-R the steering posts are screwed to the top plate. The Type-R also has more fibers in the plastic.

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Re: Project: EP Ultima ST Type-R Evo & Ultima ST Racing Spor

Post by EvolutionRevolution »

Front bulkheads:
front-bulkhead.jpg
Not much differences on this side, other than the less charged plastic on the Racing Sports bulkhead (left)
front-bulkhead-2.jpg
The Type-R's inner hinge pins can be locked in place using setscrews.

Front plates:
The front plate I'll be using for the Type-R is the optional 2.5 mm thick 'hard' plate, which can take a lot of hits and removes a weak point from the car.
front-plates-1.jpg
front-plates-2.jpg
The hard front plate can be had in this nice blue color or in gold.

Hinge pin plate:
hinge-pin-plate.jpg
The Racing Sports hinge pin plate is held in place by the bumper, the Type-R plate by the bulkhead, meaning you can upgrade a Racing Sports to the Type-R part, but then the hinge pins won't stay in, so you have to buy the Type-R bulkhead too.

Inner front hinge pins:
inner-front-hinge-pins.jpg
The Type-R inner front hinge pins are the optional hard hinge pins (UMW-101), and have a flat spot for the set screw that is used to lock them.

Outer front hinge pins:
outer-front-hinge-pins.jpg
The Type-R outer front hinge pins are again the optional ones, and use e-clips, while the Racing Sports shows its cheapness here.

Steering posts:
steering-posts.jpg
Racing Sports = steel, Type-R = hollow aluminium

C-hubs:
c-hubs.jpg
Here is a pretty major difference: The Racing Sports's upper link attaches to the c-hub itself, while the Type-R uses the top of the kingpin. Some other minor differences unfortunately mean that upgrading the c-hub also implies upgrading the other parts.

Front a-arms:
front-a-arms.jpg
These are exactly the same, except for material. For my Type-R I will be using the optional CF-reinforced arms.

Next time: some actual assembly.

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Re: Project: EP Ultima ST Type-R Evo & Ultima ST Racing Spor

Post by EvolutionRevolution »

Starting with two front ends:

Racing Sports:
rs1.jpg
rs2.jpg
rs3.jpg
rs4.jpg
rs5.jpg
The bumper holds the front hinge pin block in place.

Type-R Evo:
tr1.jpg
The hinge pins get locked in place with setscrews.
tr2.jpg
tr3.jpg
tr4.jpg
Due to the different bumper design I will have to remove the bumper when attaching the kickup plate.
tr5.jpg

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Re: The Ultima RB/ST Racing Sports/Type-R Evo (II) Project

Post by EvolutionRevolution »

Since this project has been laying around with me doing nothing about it since ages, I figured I would get something done.

In the last few months, I picked up this Ultima ST Racing Sports (ugly body):
racing-sports-st.jpg
This car was a rightful mess, with Tamiya and Yokomo parts used to be able to use Tamiya wheels and some very shoddy suspension assembly, but it has the rare Ultima Racing Sports slipper:
racing-sports-slipper-1.jpg
Then I picked up this proper length Ultima ST Type-R chassis:
st-chassis.jpg
And this Ultima RB Type-R Evo:
rb-type-r.jpg
At this point I have enough parts to actually build most of a Ultima Type-R Evo with all of the options that makes it a Ultima RB Type-R Evo II (see later). I also have enough parts to complete the Ultima ST Racing Sports.

Let's first have a look at the Ultima Racing Sports slipper:
racing-sport-slipper-2.jpg
This uses asbestos pads like the Optima MId 'slipper', except that unlike the Optima Mid's 'slipper' it's really an adjustable slipper. The spur is specific to this slipper and totally impossible to find, so I chose to use the somewhat worn one that was included. The Racing Sports slipper uses a longer layshaft with a flat area machined on it. The shaft's diameter is 5 mm.

Gearbox reassembled:
racing-sports-gearbox-2.jpg
racing-sports-gear-box.jpg
I then reassembled most of the Ultima ST Racing Sports, resulting in this:
racing-sport-3.jpg
It uses the Racing Sports slipper and Ultima Type-R universals, as well as full ball bearings. The shocks will be the original ones (once I've figured out which one don't leak), and I'll add turnbuckles for ease of adjustment. The body that came with the above-mentioned truck is in quite bad a condition (holes everywhere) and will need some cosmetic repair before it's used.

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Re: The Ultima RB/ST Racing Sports/Type-R Evo (II) Project

Post by EvolutionRevolution »

I replaced the short Ultima RB chassis on the Ultima ST Type-R by the proper length truck chassis (and accompanying rear chassis), which unfortunately is the non-reinforced version (this will have to change later on) and mounted the hard rear suspension holders to the alloy rear chassis plate (pics will come later).

I then turned my attention to the Ultima RB Type-R Evo. Now I mentioned I wanted to change this into a Evo II.

What is an Evo II?

From my research it appears to have been a rare Team-driver-only chassis that can, however, be build out of parts. You'll need:

- Ultima RB Type-R Evo kit
- the special hard chassis with the battery slots and the rear chassis with the battery slot
- lightweight layshaft and slipper parts
- long rear arm conversion (basically modified Lazer ZX arms) and accompanying universals.
- hard front chassis
- either adjustable (Team only?) TwinCap shocks or prototype Triple Cap velvets
- hard rear hubs
- carbon front shock tower
- Evo II body

Now for my Evo II I made some changes to this list. I'll go with:
- production triple cap shocks
- TF-5 hard rear hub
- Lazer ZX-5 CVDs
- reinforced carbon shock tower I got in a lot (this might actually be a prototype part :D )

While taking apart the Type-R Evo I discovered that the regular Type-R and the Evo have different top shafts (left: Type-R, middle: Type-R Evo, right: lightweight Type-R Evo (II)):
layshafts-type-r.jpg
This also means the assembly of the slipper itself is slightly different.

After some assembly I had this:
type-r-evo-2-1.jpg
Using the Lazer ZX-5 universals allows me to use Lazer ZX-5 alloy hexes. The TF-5 hard rear hubs widen the track by 1.2 mm on each side; I added a washer to widen it a bit more, as the information I found on the Type-R Evo II suggests it performs better with more rear width.

And this is where the Type-R Evo II stands right now:
type-r-evo-2-2.jpg
Here's what I think is the best Ultima body ever (non-squished cab-forward body!):
type-r-evo-2-3.jpg

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Re: The Ultima RB/ST Racing Sports/Type-R Evo (II) Project

Post by adam lancia »

I'd love to get my hands on one of these, either a buggy or truck! I know they didn't have a lot of racing success but at the level I race at, it wouldn't make a difference :lol: Nice work and thanks for all of the comparisons :mrgreen:

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Re: The Ultima RB/ST Racing Sports/Type-R Evo (II) Project

Post by losiXXXman »

What body is that in the front? Did the typeR evo have a different body? Are those still obtainable from Kyosho America..or anywhere? It does have great lines.

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Re: The Ultima RB/ST Racing Sports/Type-R Evo (II) Project

Post by rccars4sal »

I really like 1st gen ultimas. rb is my 2nd fav 2wd buggy ever. Great looking builds,, and I bet they arent terribly expensive right now?

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Re: The Ultima RB/ST Racing Sports/Type-R Evo (II) Project

Post by EvolutionRevolution »

losiXXXman wrote:What body is that in the front? Did the typeR evo have a different body? Are those still obtainable from Kyosho America..or anywhere? It does have great lines.
The Type-R Evo has the same body as the Type-R (the yellow-orange body in the picture). The one in front is the Evo II body and is only available as a spare part. You can find it on Ebay for a decent price. The part number is UM-418.

The Evo II body lines are much more like the ZX-5 bodies, which would be logical if it is correct that it was released in 2003 (the year of the ZX-5's debut).

It's quite fun to build a car that doesn't officially exist as a kit, but is rather obviously one of the missing links between the RB and the RB-5. I'm also wondering whether it's possible to mount a RB-5 front end and rear end on the Type-R chassis and vice-versa...

Edit: Perhaps a little time-line will ease on the potential confusion:

For the buggy:
Ultima RB Racing Sports (1999) => Ultima RB ReadySet with slipper (2000?) => Ultima RB Type-R (2001) => Ultima RB Type-R Evolution (2003) => Ultima RB Type-R Evolution II (no kit, 2003-2004) => Ultima RB-5 prototype (2005) => Ultima RB-5 (2007)

The stadium truck time-line is the same, but stops at the Type-R (the RT-5 only came out in 2009, IIRC). However, the GP stadium truck did have an Evo version, which came out in 2003.

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Re: The Ultima RB/ST Racing Sports/Type-R Evo (II) Project

Post by EvolutionRevolution »

rccars4sal wrote:I really like 1st gen ultimas. rb is my 2nd fav 2wd buggy ever. Great looking builds,, and I bet they arent terribly expensive right now?
They are hard to find, but not terribly expensive. Parts are still quite easy to find, excepting certain specific bits.

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Re: The Ultima RB/ST Racing Sports/Type-R Evo (II) Project

Post by Coelacanth »

losiXXXman wrote:What body is that in the front? Did the typeR evo have a different body? Are those still obtainable from Kyosho America..or anywhere? It does have great lines.
I like that body, too! Nice flowing lines that a paint job could really use to great effect. I can't wait to see how you paint it. 8)
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