anyone heard about this FAA crap
- bearrickster
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anyone heard about this FAA crap
As ordered by the US Congress, the FAA is gearing up to set forth a standard for commercial UAVs, Unmanned Aerial Systems, and commercial drones operating in America’s airspace. While they’ve been dragging their feet, and the laws and rules for these commercial drones probably won’t be ready by 2015, that doesn’t mean the FAA can’t figure out what the rules are for model aircraft in the meantime.
This week, the FAA released its interpretation (PDF) of what model aircraft operators can and can’t do, and the news isn’t good: FPV flights with quadcopters and model airplanes are now effectively banned, an entire industry centered around manufacturing and selling FPV equipment and autopilots will be highly regulated, and a great YouTube channel could soon be breaking the law.
The FAA’s interpretation of what model aircraft can and cannot do, and to a larger extent, what model aircraft are comes from the FAA Modernization And Reform Act Of 2012 (PDF). While this law states the, “…Federal Aviation Administration may
not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft…” it defines model aircraft as, “an unmanned aircraft that is capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere; flown within visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft; and flown for hobby or recreational purposes.” The FAA has concluded that anything not meeting this definition, for example, a remote controlled airplane with an FPV setup, or a camera, video Tx and Rx, and video goggles, is therefore not a model aircraft, and falls under the regulatory authority of the FAA.
In addition, the FAA spent a great deal of verbiage defining what, “hobby or recreational purposes” in regards to model aircraft are. A cited example of a realtor using a model aircraft to take videos of a property they are selling is listed as not a hobby or recreation, as is a farmer using a model aircraft to see if crops need water. Interestingly, receiving money for demonstrating aerobatics with a model aircraft is also not allowed under the proposed FAA guidelines, a rule that when broadly interpreted could mean uploading a video of yourself flying a model plane, uploading that to YouTube, and clicking the ‘monetize’ button could soon be against the law. This means the awesome folks at Flite Test could soon be out of a job.
The AMA, the Academy Of Model Aeronautics, and traditionally the organization that sets the ‘community-based set of safety guidelines’ referred to in every law dealing with model aircraft, are not happy with the FAA’s proposed rules (PDF). However, their objection is a breathless emotional appeal calls the proposed rules a, “a strict regulatory approach to the operation of model aircraft in the hands of our youth and elderly members.” Other than offering comments per the FAA rulemaking process there are, unfortunately, no possible legal objections to the proposed FAA rules, simply because the FAA is doing exactly what congress told them to do.
The FAA is simply interpreting the Modernization And Reform Act Of 2012 as any person would: FPV goggles interfere with the line of sight of an aircraft, thus anyone flying something via FPV goggles falls under the regulatory authority of the FAA. Flying over the horizon is obviously not line of sight, and therefore not a model aircraft. Flying a model aircraft for money is not a hobby or recreation, and if you’re surprised about this, you simply aren’t familiar with FAA rules about money, work, and person-sized aircraft.
While the proposed FAA rules are not yet in effect, and the FAA is seeking public comment on these rules, if passed there will, unfortunately, exactly two ways to fix this. The first is with a change in federal law to redefine what a model aircraft is. Here’s how to find your congresscritter, with the usual rules applying: campaign donations are better than in-person visits which are better than letters which are better than phone calls which are better than emails. They’ll also look up if you have voted in the last few elections.
If passed, the only other way these rules will align with the privileges model aircraft enthusiasts have enjoyed for decades is through a court ruling. The lawsuit objecting to these rules will most likely be filed by the AMA, and if these rules pass, a donation or membership wouldn’t be a bad idea.
This week, the FAA released its interpretation (PDF) of what model aircraft operators can and can’t do, and the news isn’t good: FPV flights with quadcopters and model airplanes are now effectively banned, an entire industry centered around manufacturing and selling FPV equipment and autopilots will be highly regulated, and a great YouTube channel could soon be breaking the law.
The FAA’s interpretation of what model aircraft can and cannot do, and to a larger extent, what model aircraft are comes from the FAA Modernization And Reform Act Of 2012 (PDF). While this law states the, “…Federal Aviation Administration may
not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft…” it defines model aircraft as, “an unmanned aircraft that is capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere; flown within visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft; and flown for hobby or recreational purposes.” The FAA has concluded that anything not meeting this definition, for example, a remote controlled airplane with an FPV setup, or a camera, video Tx and Rx, and video goggles, is therefore not a model aircraft, and falls under the regulatory authority of the FAA.
In addition, the FAA spent a great deal of verbiage defining what, “hobby or recreational purposes” in regards to model aircraft are. A cited example of a realtor using a model aircraft to take videos of a property they are selling is listed as not a hobby or recreation, as is a farmer using a model aircraft to see if crops need water. Interestingly, receiving money for demonstrating aerobatics with a model aircraft is also not allowed under the proposed FAA guidelines, a rule that when broadly interpreted could mean uploading a video of yourself flying a model plane, uploading that to YouTube, and clicking the ‘monetize’ button could soon be against the law. This means the awesome folks at Flite Test could soon be out of a job.
The AMA, the Academy Of Model Aeronautics, and traditionally the organization that sets the ‘community-based set of safety guidelines’ referred to in every law dealing with model aircraft, are not happy with the FAA’s proposed rules (PDF). However, their objection is a breathless emotional appeal calls the proposed rules a, “a strict regulatory approach to the operation of model aircraft in the hands of our youth and elderly members.” Other than offering comments per the FAA rulemaking process there are, unfortunately, no possible legal objections to the proposed FAA rules, simply because the FAA is doing exactly what congress told them to do.
The FAA is simply interpreting the Modernization And Reform Act Of 2012 as any person would: FPV goggles interfere with the line of sight of an aircraft, thus anyone flying something via FPV goggles falls under the regulatory authority of the FAA. Flying over the horizon is obviously not line of sight, and therefore not a model aircraft. Flying a model aircraft for money is not a hobby or recreation, and if you’re surprised about this, you simply aren’t familiar with FAA rules about money, work, and person-sized aircraft.
While the proposed FAA rules are not yet in effect, and the FAA is seeking public comment on these rules, if passed there will, unfortunately, exactly two ways to fix this. The first is with a change in federal law to redefine what a model aircraft is. Here’s how to find your congresscritter, with the usual rules applying: campaign donations are better than in-person visits which are better than letters which are better than phone calls which are better than emails. They’ll also look up if you have voted in the last few elections.
If passed, the only other way these rules will align with the privileges model aircraft enthusiasts have enjoyed for decades is through a court ruling. The lawsuit objecting to these rules will most likely be filed by the AMA, and if these rules pass, a donation or membership wouldn’t be a bad idea.
- EvolutionRevolution
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Re: anyone heard about this FAA crap
It mostly aims at preventing companies like Amazon.com filling the skies with delivery drones piloted by untrained clueless jocks and likely causing serious accidents. The decision might also have been influenced by Youtube videos of people making irresponsible stunts near unsuspecting public and articles such as http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/06/20/when-drones-fall-from-the-sky/?hpid=z1 . If highly trained military pilots already have such a high failure rate flying drones, what kind of disasters would untrained and underpaid morons cause? There's been a few near misses already:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/09/us-american-airline-drone-idUSBREA480UU20140509
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/04/us/new-york-drone-report/
The law-abiding R/C pilots who use FPV are unfortunate collateral damage. Also note that only F(irst)P(erson)V(iew) R/C aircraft are targetted, not regular ones.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/09/us-american-airline-drone-idUSBREA480UU20140509
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/04/us/new-york-drone-report/
The law-abiding R/C pilots who use FPV are unfortunate collateral damage. Also note that only F(irst)P(erson)V(iew) R/C aircraft are targetted, not regular ones.
- Halgar
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Re: anyone heard about this FAA crap
There, fixed it for ya. It only takes a few jackasses and a bored politician to seriously F-up things for everyone, be it model aircraft or anything else in the world. Just one less freedom for everyone, you won't mind will you? It's only this one little thing . . . until the next "one little thing" . . . and the next . . . Don't worry, though, you're still perfectly free to do whatever else you like. Oh wait, those things are gone now too.EvolutionRevolution wrote:The law-abiding citizens are unfortunate collateral damage.
klavy69 wrote:... when I give you s&#t its a loan...I want it back!
Re: anyone heard about this FAA crap
its sucks but i can see a little into it. Modelers are few on a world wide scale. but people are seeing these, they hove gotten cheaper, so anyone thinks they are pilots and can make videos. I was in the store when a guy was buying one, cause his buddy was flying one from his living room using his 50" tv as the sight of flight, going down katella by disneland, so the camera onyl shows so much. as a standing mideler, you can see the plane and objects and people around. to moany people see something, can afford it, but not the common sense. and do stupid things and ruin it for the serious people. its like any industry. IE real cars, we all like ot mod, but the kids, the ricers or what not bring unwanted attention to the good people cause a couple bad seeds. aand they have to regulate it the best they can. sucks. but so many idiots ruin it for us.
- EvolutionRevolution
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Re: anyone heard about this FAA crap
To be honest, considering all the senseless anti-terror stuff that the US has implemented sincde 2001, I'm surprised it took until now...Halgar wrote:There, fixed it for ya. It only takes a few jackasses and a bored politician to seriously F-up things for everyone, be it model aircraft or anything else in the world. Just one less freedom for everyone, you won't mind will you? It's only this one little thing . . . until the next "one little thing" . . . and the next . . . Don't worry, though, you're still perfectly free to do whatever else you like. Oh wait, those things are gone now too.EvolutionRevolution wrote:The law-abiding citizens are unfortunate collateral damage.
Other (sensible) options would be to forbid drones and aircraft to fly at the same heights, or to limit drone operation near airfields.
This is, AFAIK, how it is in my country: if they notice you operating R/C aircraft where you're not supposed to be, be ready for a hefty fine and confiscation of your stuff. Of course, during the recent nuclear summit they decided to cover 95% of the country with a no-fly zone (completely ridiculous) while at the same time having near zero security near the highway that the governmental delegations were taking

- slotcarrod
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Re: anyone heard about this FAA crap
I understand their point. All it takes is one bad person to load up explosives in an RC aircraft that has FPV (First Person View) and fly into what ever target they like. For that matter, the course can also be plotted using GPS without FPV!
Feeling safe?
These are cheap weapons these days!

These are cheap weapons these days!
Rod Littau
Slotcarrod's Rumpus Room: http://www.rc10talk.com/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=16113
25 Years of the RC10: http://www.rc10talk.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=13059
Slotcarrod's Rumpus Room: http://www.rc10talk.com/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=16113
25 Years of the RC10: http://www.rc10talk.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=13059
- GoMachV
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Re: anyone heard about this FAA crap
Unfortunately it's like gun laws, they will only be punishing the innocent. Bad people with bombs don't usually care if something is illegal
- Hcp22
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Re: anyone heard about this FAA crap
This is going to hurt a good friend of mine. He's damn near quit his day job because of all the $$ he's making shooting real estate and events with his quads and hexes.
- RC10th
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Re: anyone heard about this FAA crap
The report of the near miss with the drone at 2300' isn't hard to achive. Most full range radios will transmit 2km+ which is 6,560 feet, and that's without a signal booster or UHF.
It's the morons that spoil the fun for everone.
It's the morons that spoil the fun for everone.
I was old school - when old school wasn't cool !
- flipwils11
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Re: anyone heard about this FAA crap
I'm wondering if the FAA ruling is the final word on this... lots of people want to use these things, not just hobbyists.
http://nypost.com/2014/07/13/private-eyes-using-drones-to-nab-scammers-cheating-spouses/
http://nypost.com/2014/07/13/private-eyes-using-drones-to-nab-scammers-cheating-spouses/
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