Not my Thread anymore! Hijacked. Please delete ME!!!!

[Coelacanth]

How about that for a educated guess. The actual measurement is 94.5mm from the end of the threads to the center of the pin. Now give me measurements of the W5061 and the CRD style.

Will do, I'll take some pics tonight.

EDIT: I may not even need to update this topic, as the info I read here confirms what I said earlier:

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=50728

Kyosho Lazer LA245 CVD's are an almost-exact fit for the much-more-hard-to-find W5061 U-joints, and are functionally superior. The bone length is identical at 62.5mm, but the axles are about 1.6mm longer, something that is easily resolved with a shim. As mentioned before, the LA245's require hex hubs with cross-pins, easily available everywhere on eBay for $5 to $8 for 4, while the older W5061's use the stock press-fit hex hubs. Again, the LA245's are superior as cross-pins won't allow a wheel to slip on the axle, as will happen with the W5061's under high torque or with worn out nylon lock nuts.

[RichieRich]

Wow, that's an old thread. I should have remembered it. LOL!

[mdp0430]

So I'm confused... If you have a Rocky (or Raider) you need the W-5062 version which I've also confirmed via an old Tower Hobbies catalog. But it's near impossible to find. Are there any other options? According to what I've read, the W-5061 has a shorter axle, does that matter if used in a Rocky? You guys proved that the LA245 CVD's are longer than the W-5061, but how do they compare to the W-5062? Do you think that they would work on the Rocky (I realize I'd have to go with a hex/pin rim). Any help is greatly appreciated since I'm trying to bring my old Rocky back to life...

Thanks guys!

[Coelacanth]

I believe the LA245 CVDs would work fine in the Rocky, you'd probably need to insert a 1 or 2mm thick shim on the inside of the hub before running the axle through it (I'd try 1mm first), that would reduce how far the axle threads extend outside the hubs, so you don't run out of threads while bolting on your wheels.

It's good to note the original Rocky didn't use W-5062's, they used standard dogbones with separate axles. The gold W-5062 U-joints were an Option House upgrade part introduced with the Turbo Rocky.

[mdp0430]

I believe the LA245 CVDs would work fine in the Rocky, you'd probably need to insert a 1 or 2mm thick shim on the inside of the hub before running the axle through it (I'd try 1mm first), that would reduce how far the axle threads extend outside the hubs, so you don't run out of threads while bolting on your wheels.

It's good to note the original Rocky didn't use W-5062's, they used standard dogbones with separate axles. The gold W-5062 U-joints were an Option House upgrade part introduced with the Turbo Rocky.

Thank you for your response. What would you use as a shim? Also, can you recommend a hex/pin adapter and wheels (and tires) that would fit? Would this affect the size of the bearings?

You're right, I've noticed that the Rocky manual doesn't refer to the W-5062's as an option, but the Raider manual lists them and the old Tower Hobbies catalog specifically states that they're for the Raider/Rocky... I'd like to replace the front stock dogbones/axles because I remember the dogbones falling out in the past. I'd also like to replace the rear ones because I hear a ticking when I spin the left rear wheel and think it's coming from the stock dogbone/axle area. Plus, if I'm going to do the front, might as well do the rear...

Thanks again!

[esaresky75]

I believe the LA245 CVDs would work fine in the Rocky, you'd probably need to insert a 1 or 2mm thick shim on the inside of the hub before running the axle through it (I'd try 1mm first), that would reduce how far the axle threads extend outside the hubs, so you don't run out of threads while bolting on your wheels.

Here it is:

Since I now own two Rocky's and one Turbo Rocky, 1-1/2 sets of the W5062 and 1 set of LA245 CVD, I have all knowledge.

The LA245 will work but the following must be done, and shims are the opposite of what will need to do.

Using the factory 12mm hex hub, the side facing AWAY from the wheel, you must machine the diameter of the "stand-off" from .345" to .250". Then drill the ID to .196" (#9 drill bit). For my prototype, I cross-drilled a .076" (#46 drill bit) hole to accept a standerd 12mm x 2mm hub pin. I think I will put the rest in the milling machine and just machine a slot. You must use Ball Bearings with this conversion as bushings will cause the shaft to lock-up as soon as you tighten the wheel nut. With the pieces assembled, the wheel nut has full thread but the nylon lock ring is just engaged, so I recommend using Loc-Tite on the threads if not a shelf queen.
I don't have my camera with me at work so I will take pics when I get home tonight.
I know many can't do this work and since there isn't a huge demand for this conversion (I hope not) I will do this for free as long as you pay for return shipping.

[esaresky75]

I'd also like to replace the rear ones because I hear a ticking when I spin the left rear wheel and think it's coming from the stock dogbone/axle area. Plus, if I'm going to do the front, might as well do the rear...

Thanks again!

I agree do the rear too but the ticking noise is usually the spring used to keep tension on the dogbone.

[Coelacanth]

I believe the LA245 CVDs would work fine in the Rocky, you'd probably need to insert a 1 or 2mm thick shim on the inside of the hub before running the axle through it (I'd try 1mm first), that would reduce how far the axle threads extend outside the hubs, so you don't run out of threads while bolting on your wheels.

Here it is:

Since I now own two Rocky's and one Turbo Rocky, 1-1/2 sets of the W5062 and 1 set of LA245 CVD, I have all knowledge.

The LA245 will work but the following must be done, and shims are the opposite of what will need to do.

Why wouldn't shimming work? You may be one of the few people with W-5062's, but I've been playing around with narrowed front arms/CVDs and CVDs of 2 different lengths with the same rear control arms on my CYANide project, and shimming properly will work just fine, and doesn't require machine work.

I used shims on the insides of all 4 hubs, just after inserting the bearings, to accomplish 2 things: it places the cross-pin end of the bones deeper into the joints; on CYANide, the bones were a bit too shallow in the joints and were at risk of falling out with a heavy shock & release. An extra 1 to 1.5mm depth makes a big difference. The second thing it does is pull in the outside threaded axle a bit, relative to the hexes & wheels, in the event your lock-nuts thread on all the way without tightening down the wheels. A shim could even be installed on the outside of the wheels to make up this space, as long as you're using cross-drilled axles & hexes--as you're not counting on merely friction & lock-nuts to keep the wheels on anymore.

It's true what you said about using bearings instead of bushings, due to the wheel locking behavior you mentioned, preventing the wheels from turning. For this reason you also need the correct shim diameters. jwscab made some spacers for me in various sizes, I believe I bought 15 or 20 or so for $20. The sizes he made for me were 5 x 10mm with thicknesses of 1, 2 and 3mm. Maybe he'd make you some, if you didn't have something similar.

We're talking about a 1.6mm difference. That's not that much, really.

[esaresky75]

It's a length problem, the shaft is too short. Shims would work if the shaft was too long.

The LA245 stub axle is too short for use in a Rocky unless you machine the hex hub. The hubs width is 4mm. Looking on ebay, I see 2.5 and 3mm width with crosspins but I don't have any on-hand to try.

[EvolutionRevolution]

For those that don't mind having non-Kyosho aftermarket parts on their cars, know that aftermarket universals for the Kyosho GP-10 (wide) cars also fit the Optima etc. as long as you don't make the car sit too far up on its wheels. I've just fitted some Kose GP-10 universals to my Optima MID-based Kyosho Skyline Scale Car, and they fit perfectly. Depending on the manufacturer, GP-10 universals are either pressure fit hex hub or pin (Kose has made both).

[Coelacanth]

I thought it was the other way 'round, with the LA245's being longer. At least, they're longer than the W-5061's. EvolutionRevolution makes a good point though, one I almost brought up in my previous post, but thought I'd already been too long-winded. If you configure your shocks and control arms for slightly-more-than-horizontal control arm angles, this will shorten the length needed for the swing shafts.

esaresky75, do you have LA245's?

[esaresky75]

From top to bottom: factory Rocky, W5062 (factory Turbo Rocky), LA245 CVD





CVD Shaft installed


W5062 Shaft installed

Modified hub on left, factory on right

No change to bearings, knuckle, or shaft. I used the factory hubs, drill & machine as described in my above post and used a 2mm x 12mm pin from what I do not know (it was in my misc R/C parts box).

[Coelacanth]

Thanks, I see what you mean. Up to the hexes, they look identical. What's the deal, are the Rocky wheels that thick that they require that extra 4mm of space before the threads?

[esaresky75]

Thanks, I see what you mean. Up to the hexes, they look identical. What's the deal, are the Rocky wheels that thick that they require that extra 4mm of space before the threads?

The LA245's have more thread than the Rocky/Turbo Rocky shafts but the length between the flange and the thread is shorter. I don't own a Optima (always wanted one) but I would guess the distance between the inner and outer bearings is greater on the Rocky Knuckle than the Optima. I will let you know as soon I purchase one.

[RichieRich]

I have to say, never have I ever imagined that universals/CVDs for the Kyosho Rocky would generate 4 pages of posts in a thread.