Handling questions - CE indoor high bite clay

[JK Racing]

Current set up:

• .89 (B3/B4 shocks) #2 piston, 40 weight AE oil, black springs, Center hole on tower, outer hole on CE arm.
  1.32 (with 1.02 shaft & 1 limiter), #2 piston, 32.5 weight losi oil, green springs, #2 hole on worlds rear tower, all the way out on tower.
  
  Front camber link stock
  Rear camber link in "middle" worlds bulkhead, middle of B4 rear carrier
  
  Arms level all around
  
  Gold barcodes up front (B4 wheels)
  Pink BK Bars in rear (B4 wheels)

I went to practice on a high bite clay track, indoor, lots of elevation changes & jumps that require good timing and set up.

Problem - car was VERY twitchy (hence moving to 40 weight up front, calmed it down some).
Tons of traction, would pull the front tires up on accelleration, turn on a dime off power, traction roll on ANY med/high speed corner.

Looking for ways to dull the sensitivity/feel of the car. Thinking maybe the narrowed stance (compared to B4/Losi XXX) may be part of the issue.

Thoughts?

[kaiser]

thats a tough one, i never got traction roll on bk bars before. maybe a set of really firm foam inserts would help prevent the the tires from rolling over.
thats what does it, the sidewall flops and then boom, yer on yer lid.

if all else fails how about changing up the driving style and slide through the turns?

[JK Racing]

I couldnt get the car to slide, even locking up the brakes. I'm thinking about trying a "non-clay" compound (Panther Super Soft) next time out. I think the car would be great if overall I had less traction on both ends, LOL.

as an fyi, I was running the same tires as all the "fast" guys were, a few were running gold barcodes on the rear, a few running MC suburbs, but overall the majority was Pink BK bars (for buggy).

[kaiser]

and they didn't have and issue right? hmmm....must have something to do with roll center then as all the newer cars have adj roll center.

[Charlie don't surf]

I couldnt get the car to slide, even locking up the brakes. I'm thinking about trying a "non-clay" compound (Panther Super Soft) next time out. I think the car would be great if overall I had less traction on both ends, LOL.

as an fyi, I was running the same tires as all the "fast" guys were, a few were running gold barcodes on the rear, a few running MC suburbs, but overall the majority was Pink BK bars (for buggy).

Inserts- and how many internal limiters are you using in the shocks? On a super high bite you may just be transitioning to much weight side to side, or front to back- and I think that SS tires will only make the car even twitchier-

[JK Racing]

inserts, Losi stock...limiters, 1 in rear shock. thinking about it, i did switch from B4 rear shocks to CE rear shocks, I probably have too much droop, I will measure them side by side, maybe even shorten the CE shock a touch to compensate and keep the chassis flatter.

Will this calm down the twitchyness in the front or just settle the rear down?

(this is why I ask here!!)

[Charlie don't surf]

Well, you may need them in the front as well as the droop effects lots of things including weight transfer and the rate of it- My 10t for example has 6 internal limiters in the front and 4 in the rear- it is 2 seconds faster due to the limiters aiding the roll and dive throughout the track-

[JK Racing]

rough guide as to how much? arms level?

video of my (very) poor driving and the track kinda embarrassed to show how bad I was doing...

white/orange/black CE, if you can make it out.

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheRb81266#p/u/17/lfqGAqQ3z7Q

I was also noticing how much higher the modern cars were jumping compared to me, I'm thinking maybe a touch more antisquat could help me out a bit? Just a guess.

[Charlie don't surf]

Joey, start by showing a pic of your car's front end from the top-so I can see the steering geometry for bump steer etc, then what caster settings and caster blocks are you running?
and are you sure that your ball cups are very free and will rock back and forth with a fingertip?

Assuming all other things are correct such as free arms, camber links and drivetrain here is where I started my car at on a really high bite track-

(F) 37.5w, #1 pistons, 4 internal limiters, brown springs with RPM lower cups and the upper inside shock mount on an Atlas tower and outer mount on the arm. 25 deg caster blocks- 1deg camber and +1deg toe in 2 bumpsteer spacers on the steering arm and 1 on the bellcrank.

If my car was behaving like you mentioned then I would start by going to a #2 piston and up to a silver front spring- and lowering the ride height in the rear via spring tension

(R) 32.5w, #1 pistons, 3 internal limiters, green springs with standard lower cups, 2nd most inner upper mount, middle mount on the arm with 1.02 threaded and 1.32 shafts with bump spacers on the shaft- also at 1.5 inboard toe, and 1.5 deg hub carriers. stock anti-squat.

I might change the rear hubs to 0 deg to increase the rear rotation

Your cars attitude in the air or off the jump faces may be a result of poor throttle control to the jump face as well- I don't mean that as an insult- but it is easy to get your car out of balance
by compressing the suspension in the wrong places on the throttle by having the front end light and tail slapping or a host of other things-

get some pics up showing the droop etc and it won't be long before it's better

[JK Racing]

Im convinced its a droop issue.

All suspension arms fall under their own weight, no binding

rear:




rear droop:






front (25 degree castor blocks):




with droop:

[JK Racing]

bump steer, toe in at top of travel, maybe 1/8 inch or 5-10 degrees (guess)





rear camber gain appear to be almost zero

[JK Racing]

(pardon the VERY messy bench )

[rctenracer]

I don't have any comments. But I sure am learning alot from this post.

[JK Racing]

(R) with 1.02 threaded and 1.32 shafts

I have 1.32 body with 1.02 shafts...difference? I should have kept the 1.18 bodies I had on there

AE ever make a 1.18 body in gold? I should probably just upgrade to the V2 shocks to be honest, but I just cant justify $40+ for 2 shocks...

[jwscab]

so you are using B4 hubs and CVD's. Do you notice any binding? From what I see on these forums, you should see binding issues with the longer B4 cvd's vs the b44 set.