Sensored/Sensorless Questions...

[losiXXXman]

I realize now that there are benefits to a sensored system, but my first jump into the brushless game came with a sensorless AE 540 model and 4900 motor. While happy with the 4900 motor I have, I'm just thinking ahead to the next thing... Can this esc run the D3.5 motors for instance? I see that they are sensor based, and Trinity also has Revtech and Monster Horsepower motors too..Tower says the Revtech/ROAR spec models are sensor less, but not the Monster Horsepowers. Are those models sensored or sensorless? FWIW the Tekin Redline are WAY out of my price range. Also, what about the Edge model from Novak?

I may go the route of the HW or Brushless hobbies stuff when I get to that point to, just trying to further educate myself.

[knucklebuster]

I'm in the same boat with a sensorless SV2. I assumed if you didn't plug in a sensored motor it became sensorless.

[losiXXXman]

I'm in the same boat with a sensorless SV2. I assumed if you didn't plug in a sensored motor it became sensorless.

That was my assumption too, but I definitely don't want to be"testing" it out on my electronics

Can someone enlighten us? Can you run a motor made for sensored operation with your sensorless speedo? Cana sensored speedo run a sensorless motor?

[Phin]

The D3.5, Revtech and Monster Horsepower motors are all sensored according to Trinity's website. My understanding is that if the motor is labeled with Turns (T) it is a sensored motor and if it's labeled with KV it's a sensorless.

I've read that while you can run a sensored motor on a sensorless ESC it will not be very smooth. If you're thinking about getting into some form of ROAR Spec/stock racing then you should get a sensored ESC. Sensored ESC can not run sensorless motors.

[4.whoa]

I havent done it,just getting into this bl stuff,BUT some ESC's say they do both
http://www.castlecreations.com/products/mamba_max_pro.html

& this one is on sale today, just ordered one

[knucklebuster]

Phin, thanks for the info.

4whoa, that looks like a decent deal. $120 shipped is the cheapest SV2 5700kv combo I've found.

[kaiser]

the key to the question is also key to the answer....

some esc's can do both and if the sensor wire becomes damaged or unplugged it will run in non sensored modes.
i have done this many times, not by choice. i'll pull it off the track and notice the sensor wire hanging out....i didn't notice a difference....i won that heat. lol

but i do not believe you can run a sensored motor on a completely non sensored esc.

when it's time to step up, try a hobbywing xe run if the prices of tekin/novak/lrp scare you.

notice i didn't mention castle?

[knucklebuster]

Thanks Kaiser. What's your gripe with Castle? How would you say it compares to Hobbywing?

[kaiser]

there is no comparison IMHO.

if you don't race or plan on racing then i guess castle is ok, but they have bec issues, they have overheating issues although that has gotten better in the past couple of years. i don't like the wiring, i preffer tabs on motors.

hobbywing xeruns are more like the high end systems, dual drive (sensored or sensorless) timing, boost, lots of adjustability thats easy to use.

i don't like either companies motors (hobbywings are low on power and castles are not legal for racing), but the xe run speedo's are top notch.

1/8 racing is where i've seen the most castle failures at the track, there always seems to be a couple of guys each race day with a smoked castle motor.

most of my cars are powered by tekin, some lrp and some xerun esc's, all tekin and novak motors. all sensored.

[Charlie don't surf]

Castles have been garbage from the get go, in 2007 I was testing Feigo based Orion Vortex BL's (4.5/5.5) with NiMh with Orion- I had one hall effect sensor failure during the Nat which out me out of qualifying for the A, but EVERY castle system that weekend went up in smoke, I mean every one. And, at the time BL in racing was very very new and all the castle guys had to buy new brushed systems to finish. Junk-

[kaiser]

i agree with that, just didn't want to start a war with the castle owners, they really are a shoddy system.
sure some guys have no trouble with them (i've never met one of those guys), but there are tons that have had problems.

the best evidence of this is how much the castle fans love the customer service, well that means they needed customer service in the first place.

[jwscab]

an ESC designed to run a sensorless motor should be able to run sensored or sensorless. The hall effect sensors are basically an add-on to the rotor, to give rotational information. If the esc doesn't need it, it won't matter. If you have a sensored ESC, that requires the sensors, then it won't run a sensorless motor.

brushless motors are just like a 3 phase AC motor, they have (internal construction varies) 3 field (stator)poles, connected in series. depending on where the power is applied to those windings, it creates a force repelling the rotor, as it rotates, the power is applied round-robin fashion to the next winding pair, around and around. The force of the rotation is dependent on the polarity of the stator winding.(ie, it will move 'forward' or 'reverse'). Sometimes at slow speed and high load, the rotor doesn't quite get 'pushed' far enough and when power is applied to the next field, it has to 'catch' up so you get the phenomenon of cogging. If the load is too high or the power is too low, you could get in a a situation where the rotor spins the wrong way. The sensors in the motor can determine if the rotor has spun the right way, if not, the esc is smart enough to know to 'try again' in the field, and possibly increase the on time of the voltage to help drive the rotor in the right direction.

http://www.freescale.com/files/graphic/other/MOTORBLDCIMG.gif

If the GIF above works, it's a good picture of what's happening.

[Lonestar]

but i do not believe you can run a sensored motor on a completely non sensored esc. :

yes, you can. the sensored is "of use" to the speedo, not the motor itself.

[RC104ever]

Interesting info here about Castle vs Hobbywing. Myself personally, I've got a Castle Esc and motor in almost every car I have and they have been excellent with zero issues. Maybe I have just been lucky but I've run 1/8,1/10 and 1/18 in harsh conditions and never had a failure. Mind you I'm not racing so that could be a factor.

I did find the SV2 tended to overheat so I added a fan but the Mamba Max Pro's are all great.

[CamplinP]

Interesting info here about Castle vs Hobbywing. Myself personally, I've got a Castle Esc and motor in almost every car I have and they have been excellent with zero issues. Maybe I have just been lucky but I've run 1/8,1/10 and 1/18 in harsh conditions and never had a failure. Mind you I'm not racing so that could be a factor.

I did find the SV2 tended to overheat so I added a fan but the Mamba Max Pro's are all great.

X2. I have 4 systems now with the oldest being about 2.5 years old. It is a Mamba Max Pro with the 5700kv in a T4. I have no idea how many miles this little motor has on it but it is a bunch. As for racing, it has seen much more abuse than racing ever would.

The thing you must be careful of with the cheaper hobbywing and the like is that some 540 size motor cans actually have a 380 armature in them. I think you can tell most of those because of the heatsink cans.