Parma Euro Panther project - Chris Arnold special

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V12
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Re: Parma Euro Panther project - Chris Arnold special

Post by V12 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:04 pm

Well the Euro Panther actually should be not that unknown. Bud Bartos got 1984 World Champion Stock with such car, but of course I have no idea how much kits were sold. For sure way less than RC12i or RC12L cars ...
But it was a capable car ... in the right hands, as any car.

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Re: Parma Euro Panther project - Chris Arnold special

Post by V12 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:11 pm

Lonestar wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:30 pm
This is a fantastic niche product! hence the lack of engagement from fellow forum members... We have no idea what you're talking about :mrgreen:

Still a cool one though - kudos for getting to it!

Paul
Thanks Paul. Maybe almost everyone has gone offroad meanwhile ...
But if there are some guys left interested in such project I will continue.

I also have no idea what I´m talking about ... :lol:
Well if there are any questions regarding the build or the car, everybody is invited for questions.

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Re: Parma Euro Panther project - Chris Arnold special

Post by V12 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:19 pm

ChisaiKuso wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:54 pm
Thank you for that response. I was curious about which shims you had used and where you had cut them. Your detailed explanation perfectly addresses what I was hoping to see in a picture.
It is not any difficult making the RC12E castor shims work for the Parma front end. You could cut the shims to your needs. I personally cut them short so they will be hidden below the front end brace, actually I just cut them being same length each side. But you also could cut them longer so they will protrude out of the brace and you could hold them.

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Re: Parma Euro Panther project - Chris Arnold special

Post by V12 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:38 pm

Rear pod assembly was the next step now.

Pod was borrowed from a donor car as the t-bar. The parts were cleaned initially with brake cleaner and the proven super-sonic cleaning machine afterwards. For the rear body posts, Chris didn´t use the usual aluminium tubes but went with threaded posts again. These consist of metric M5 nylon bolts and the same Schumacher serrated nuts as used for the front.

Chris liked red dyed plastic parts at some of his cars, which also could be seen at his 1984 Worlds car at the museum. But sometimes he also used white parts. At the next buildings steps there will be special made parts, which are using white parts indeed, I decided keeping with white color for those bolts as well.
But I promise, some really nice looking red parts will show up in the end.
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chas-7.jpg

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Phin
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Re: Parma Euro Panther project - Chris Arnold special

Post by Phin » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:11 pm

V12 wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:11 pm
Thanks Paul. Maybe almost everyone has gone offroad meanwhile ...
But if there are some guys left interested in such project I will continue.

I also have no idea what I´m talking about ... :lol:
Well if there are any questions regarding the build or the car, everybody is invited for questions.
I am interested and have been watching. You've just been so thorough with the details that I've had no questions. 8)

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Re: Parma Euro Panther project - Chris Arnold special

Post by V12 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:15 pm

Phin wrote:
Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:11 pm
I am interested and have been watching. You've just been so thorough with the details that I've had no questions. 8)
So I should not post details anymore? Plain pictures, done. :wink:

Well I would be interested to know what everybody thought about the chassis. Was it too difficult to realize this could be for a Parma car? Or did I post the answer to that question too early? Please let me know guys.

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Re: Parma Euro Panther project - Chris Arnold special

Post by LurkingCAT » Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:04 pm

Hi there! This is a great thread as always from you:-)
Great details on this build. For me I'm simply not here often enough to to follow up on questions like this.

Been interested in the Panther and Euro Panther for a long time but you really managed to dig up some cool info. I remember Bud Bartos Euro Panther was up on ebay some years ago (2012?) and I deeply regret I didn't stretch av bit further to get it.

Keeper up Gunther!

Best, David

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Re: Parma Euro Panther project - Chris Arnold special

Post by V12 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:39 pm

Thanks David!
Yes Chris told me a lot of things about that car and the R&D he did. Actually this started as a private project by him but when team mate Phil Olson won the Euros with one of his prototypes, Parma had to release that car. Bud Bartos visited the Euros and could watch Phil winning there, but he was not involved into R&D. So the Euro Panther was a fully British design in the end, hence that name also.

Yes Bud Bartos won the Worlds Stock class and sold the car at Ebay at some point. Later this car was sold again and I got permission showing those photos at the museum.

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Re: Parma Euro Panther project - Chris Arnold special

Post by Phin » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:42 pm

V12 wrote:
Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:15 pm
So I should not post details anymore? Plain pictures, done. :wink:

Well I would be interested to know what everybody thought about the chassis. Was it too difficult to realize this could be for a Parma car? Or did I post the answer to that question too early? Please let me know guys.
I knew it was a Euro Panther chassis but I didn't want to spoil the fun for others. ;)

At first glance I actually thought the chassis was a foam core chassis since the graphite looks like it's got the same textured finish that the Raceco RC10 chassis had. It is a great collection of parts and I'm enjoying the commentary as much as the build pics so please carry on with both. :)

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Re: Parma Euro Panther project - Chris Arnold special

Post by V12 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:57 pm

Thanks.

Next steps will be the center dampener, the roll bar and the steering rods. But I found some parts are missing which will prevent me from finishing, these are the 2-56 threaded balls and some plastic ball cups used there. These parts were sold by Parma, Associated, Calandra and some others but I can´t find them now.

Another step will be the rear axle and diff. I have no real manual for the Euro Panther and no idea how much worth of spacers are needed. From the pictures I know it is a lot and seems more than with other cars. Someone knows?
Have to find the amount of spacers then.

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Re: Parma Euro Panther project - Chris Arnold special

Post by V12 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:04 pm

Found some more bits in the hardware boxes and "borrowed" some other from incomplete cars ....... which are even more incomplete now. :(

Parts for the center dampener. Comparing with the Delta cars there is no spring and no real shock. But the t-bar is more on the stiff side and act as a harder spring. Damping is provided by the silicone tubes. You could change damping by length of the tube, longer version acts softer and shorter version acts harder.
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chas-14.jpg

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Re: Parma Euro Panther project - Chris Arnold special

Post by V12 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:06 pm

Delta track rods, as used by Chris.
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chas-13.jpg

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Re: Parma Euro Panther project - Chris Arnold special

Post by V12 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:21 pm

Roll bar assembly. Hand built by Chris, very few were made. Comparing this prototype roll bar with production units you will find two differences. White plastic and brass collars where the production roll bar came with clear plastic and steel collars.
Ball cups for connecting to the chassis are clear because there are no white ones.
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chas-15.jpg

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Re: Parma Euro Panther project - Chris Arnold special

Post by V12 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:35 pm

Edit early posting for the chassis. The chassis not working was wrong description. Of course the chassis worked, but because of the missing flex there was too much understeer.

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Re: Parma Euro Panther project - Chris Arnold special

Post by bluewormx » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:28 pm

V12 wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:35 pm
Edit early posting for the chassis. The chassis not working was wrong description. Of course the chassis worked, but because of the missing flex there was too much understeer.
This was a common problem with rigid chassis cars RC12L (graphite) Corally sp-2 most drivers where using Trac-Tite (aditive) on almost 3/4 of interior front tyres.
On the schumacher SPC car using any kind of clamp to hold down the saddle packs would add rigidity to the chassis an cause a similar problem, or worse "tweak"!
fiberglass battery tape was the only way to go. :D

BTW I did not know Chris Arnold, and have no recollection of him. I did see Phil Olson once at an Eden Park buggy Meeting.
As far as Andy Dobson goes I did see him once at club Heathrow but I think he was still with Schumacher at the time. What happened to him? I its like he fell off the side of the planet!
I did know Phil Davies, lovely chap, I was saddened to hear he died in a motorcycle accident.

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