An Open Letter to PayPal

[328isjohn]

This was originallly posted in a Comicbook forum that I am a member of that was posted by a fellow member...it makes for a very interesting read....

............................................................


The mod over at the MEGO forums posted this about a run-in with a scammer and how poorly PayPal is handling the matter. I felt it was important to post this to make this community aware of the situation, especially because it seems to counter PayPal's "protection" claims. Here's a link and below is the copy and paste:

http://megomuseum.com/community/showthread.php?82484-An-Open-Letter-to-Paypal-(please-read)

I wrote this letter to PayPal president David Marcus yesterday, emailed and faxed it. Mr Marcus has said and done some impressive things lately, so after beating my head against the wall with the less than great customer service, I had no alternative.

Dear Mr. David Marcus

Ref ID Case PP-002-074-318-199

Last October I was the victim of mail fraud when a seller sent me a hand made item claiming it was an original toy from the 1970s. It was an upsetting time; I’d never been the victim of this kind of crime.

I felt reassured by one thing; I’d paid in him via PayPal and not Western Union as he initially demanded. Sending him money via PayPal felt better, not the gamble that a wire transfer implied.

Within minutes of opening the parcel, I filed a charge back. I had used my American Express card for half of the transaction, so I also called them. On their behest, I express shipped (at my expense) the item back to the seller. Triple boxing it, the exterior being an Amazon box, because everyone likes a treat from Amazon.

He signed for it the next day but fought me on PayPal, claiming I was lying.

PayPal asked for additional information and even affidavits from outside sources, lucky for me I’ve got some contacts in my 25 years of writing. I sent these experts photos of the (laughably) fake item and got the necessary testimony within 24 hours.

Eventually, PayPal decided in my favor and all of my money was returned. American Express was credited, so I dropped my chargeback with them as well. It was the first time I’d been on the receiving end of PayPal’s good nature.

When that buyer in Mexico claimed he never got my $400 figure, PayPal sided with him, the fact that he later sent me an email saying “ja ja ja ja I have your toy, loser” meant nothing to PayPal. When that dealer claimed I sent him an item with reproduction parts, you also sided with him, the fact that he listed the exact item the next month as “100% original” didn’t help me get my money back.

These incidents did not warm me to PayPal but I thought, as a buyer the odds were in my favor.

So imagine my surprise when Mr D (that’s what I call the seller) then claimed that he didn’t receive the parcel and surprisingly, PayPal sided with him.

How was I, the former victor, in all of this notified? Why, by my money being removed and my account locked.

Despite me having the signature of receipt from UPS PayPal took Mr D’s word that the item was not present in the package. I had no defense, PayPal wouldn’t let me defend myself, and he won.

So, I called Mr D at his home and told him that I was going to press charges with his local PD and the USPS (which I did). He waffled at first that he didn’t get the box and then later admitted he had it but the contents had been destroyed/went missing. I couldn’t get a real answer out of him but the conversation made him realize that I wasn’t going to go away and he dropped the claim on PayPal.

So is it over? Not a chance.

I’m still locked out with all my money gone. That money was made by doing the honest thing, you know, sending people exactly what they pay for but apparently, that doesn’t matter, PayPal sided with the guy who committed the mail fraud.

By the way, I can no longer honor my obligations on eBay or pay my hosting fees for my website. I’m forced to borrow money from a friend’s PayPal right now (I won’t reveal his name).

I also lost a day of work on hold with PayPal, that’s money I can’t get back and it sure was eye opening. I feel it important to refer to my opening statement; I was the victim of mail fraud, not the perpetrator.

The resolution of this two hour call was whenever Mr D pays back the money; I can have my account back. Well, he’s certainly a man of his word; forgive me if I don’t put an ounce of hope into that.

Here are the problems I have with this Mr. Marcus

1) You’re siding with someone who committed mail fraud. If I had just proceeded with my credit card company and not you, they’d have ruled in my favor. I wouldn't be tethered to this person, it simply would be over. That’s how it works, you don’t punish the person who did everything right, you stick to your guns.

2) I paid a large sum for a fake item, I would value it at about twenty dollars and even then, I’m being kind. That was my argument and you initially ruled in my favor. So even if Mr D is honest in saying it got damaged/lost, he’s not out anywhere near the money he attempted to defraud me of. He didn’t have an item of any tangible value; this was and still is a scam.

3) PayPal did not include me in the counter claim; it simply took my money and sided with him despite our history I had to work and provide evidence when I was doing the accusing.

I provided evidence all over again and got curt, nothing replies from Sita, Samantha, Todd and whatever other revolving customer service drones. Not even a dedicated person to the case!

Why should I trust an institution that has such an invisible wall around its customer service? You have people’s money; you can’t be just this shadow that lurks in the darkness. That’s fundamentally wrong.


4) It’s obvious to me that Mr D knows how to work your system pretty good and he’s likely not alone. Despite all your guarantees and me doing everything correctly, you still just took his word over all my evidence to the contrary. This gives me zero confidence in using your service in the future.


Last year, I launched my own company, I won’t tell you its name because I’m honestly afraid PayPal will empty its accounts. It’s growing at an encouraging pace and I’m excited but I’ll tell you the one change I’m going to make in 2013 is that I’m going to start accepting credit cards and no longer offer PayPal.

You simply don’t work and the more people that I can warn about this, the better.

I’m going to encourage my employer to discontinue PayPal on their website and I’m going to publish this letter via my websites, blogs and the multitude of forums I am a member of about this.

Maybe it’ll make a difference or perhaps it will do nothing. However, if my warnings result in even a small amount of people not using your service, I’ll consider it a victory.

This isn’t entirely about the money, it’s about security and service, I can honestly say that your establishment provides only a façade of both of those things.

Sincerely,


Brian H


PS Please do not send me a form response via email, I won’t read it. If you want to talk to me, you call me, I’ve earned that.

For everyone reading this, thank you and please pass it on via the face book, twitter and other “Add this” tags in the corner.

[justinspeed79]

Very good. I have been burned by Paypal too. Someone should post this on facebook, really spread the word. I would. It's up to us to do something about this kind of thing, we should use all of the tools available to us.

[JK Racing]

sent to my wife, we both despise paypal....

[GoMachV]

While I agree Paypal is the biggest joke this side of eBay, and totally agree with the letter, I fear this is what Paypal heard:

Dear Paypal,
Blah blah blah blah
Thank you

And this is what they are doing about it:

[328isjohn]

While I agree Paypal is the biggest joke this side of eBay, and totally agree with the letter, I fear this is what Paypal heard:

Dear Paypal,
Blah blah blah blah
Thank you

And this is what they are doing about it:

As is the norm with Paypal....it seems to have been resolved...from original MEGO thread....


Update: PayPal phoned me, promised to free my account and return my money. They apologized profusely but couldn't answer my questions.

Still a bit boiled about the whole mess but also satisfied with the outcome

[Charlie don't surf]

This was originallly posted in a Comicbook forum that I am a member of that was posted by a fellow member...it makes for a very interesting read....

............................................................


The mod over at the MEGO forums posted this about a run-in with a scammer and how poorly PayPal is handling the matter. I felt it was important to post this to make this community aware of the situation, especially because it seems to counter PayPal's "protection" claims. Here's a link and below is the copy and paste:

http://megomuseum.com/community/showthread.php?82484-An-Open-Letter-to-Paypal-(please-read)

I wrote this letter to PayPal president David Marcus yesterday, emailed and faxed it. Mr Marcus has said and done some impressive things lately, so after beating my head against the wall with the less than great customer service, I had no alternative.

Dear Mr. David Marcus

Ref ID Case PP-002-074-318-199

Last October I was the victim of mail fraud when a seller sent me a hand made item claiming it was an original toy from the 1970s. It was an upsetting time; I’d never been the victim of this kind of crime.

I felt reassured by one thing; I’d paid in him via PayPal and not Western Union as he initially demanded. Sending him money via PayPal felt better, not the gamble that a wire transfer implied.

Within minutes of opening the parcel, I filed a charge back. I had used my American Express card for half of the transaction, so I also called them. On their behest, I express shipped (at my expense) the item back to the seller. Triple boxing it, the exterior being an Amazon box, because everyone likes a treat from Amazon.

He signed for it the next day but fought me on PayPal, claiming I was lying.

PayPal asked for additional information and even affidavits from outside sources, lucky for me I’ve got some contacts in my 25 years of writing. I sent these experts photos of the (laughably) fake item and got the necessary testimony within 24 hours.

Eventually, PayPal decided in my favor and all of my money was returned. American Express was credited, so I dropped my chargeback with them as well. It was the first time I’d been on the receiving end of PayPal’s good nature.

When that buyer in Mexico claimed he never got my $400 figure, PayPal sided with him, the fact that he later sent me an email saying “ja ja ja ja I have your toy, loser” meant nothing to PayPal. When that dealer claimed I sent him an item with reproduction parts, you also sided with him, the fact that he listed the exact item the next month as “100% original” didn’t help me get my money back.

These incidents did not warm me to PayPal but I thought, as a buyer the odds were in my favor.

So imagine my surprise when Mr D (that’s what I call the seller) then claimed that he didn’t receive the parcel and surprisingly, PayPal sided with him.

How was I, the former victor, in all of this notified? Why, by my money being removed and my account locked.

Despite me having the signature of receipt from UPS PayPal took Mr D’s word that the item was not present in the package. I had no defense, PayPal wouldn’t let me defend myself, and he won.

So, I called Mr D at his home and told him that I was going to press charges with his local PD and the USPS (which I did). He waffled at first that he didn’t get the box and then later admitted he had it but the contents had been destroyed/went missing. I couldn’t get a real answer out of him but the conversation made him realize that I wasn’t going to go away and he dropped the claim on PayPal.

So is it over? Not a chance.

I’m still locked out with all my money gone. That money was made by doing the honest thing, you know, sending people exactly what they pay for but apparently, that doesn’t matter, PayPal sided with the guy who committed the mail fraud.

By the way, I can no longer honor my obligations on eBay or pay my hosting fees for my website. I’m forced to borrow money from a friend’s PayPal right now (I won’t reveal his name).

I also lost a day of work on hold with PayPal, that’s money I can’t get back and it sure was eye opening. I feel it important to refer to my opening statement; I was the victim of mail fraud, not the perpetrator.

The resolution of this two hour call was whenever Mr D pays back the money; I can have my account back. Well, he’s certainly a man of his word; forgive me if I don’t put an ounce of hope into that.

Here are the problems I have with this Mr. Marcus

1) You’re siding with someone who committed mail fraud. If I had just proceeded with my credit card company and not you, they’d have ruled in my favor. I wouldn't be tethered to this person, it simply would be over. That’s how it works, you don’t punish the person who did everything right, you stick to your guns.

2) I paid a large sum for a fake item, I would value it at about twenty dollars and even then, I’m being kind. That was my argument and you initially ruled in my favor. So even if Mr D is honest in saying it got damaged/lost, he’s not out anywhere near the money he attempted to defraud me of. He didn’t have an item of any tangible value; this was and still is a scam.

3) PayPal did not include me in the counter claim; it simply took my money and sided with him despite our history I had to work and provide evidence when I was doing the accusing.

I provided evidence all over again and got curt, nothing replies from Sita, Samantha, Todd and whatever other revolving customer service drones. Not even a dedicated person to the case!

Why should I trust an institution that has such an invisible wall around its customer service? You have people’s money; you can’t be just this shadow that lurks in the darkness. That’s fundamentally wrong.


4) It’s obvious to me that Mr D knows how to work your system pretty good and he’s likely not alone. Despite all your guarantees and me doing everything correctly, you still just took his word over all my evidence to the contrary. This gives me zero confidence in using your service in the future.


Last year, I launched my own company, I won’t tell you its name because I’m honestly afraid PayPal will empty its accounts. It’s growing at an encouraging pace and I’m excited but I’ll tell you the one change I’m going to make in 2013 is that I’m going to start accepting credit cards and no longer offer PayPal.

You simply don’t work and the more people that I can warn about this, the better.

I’m going to encourage my employer to discontinue PayPal on their website and I’m going to publish this letter via my websites, blogs and the multitude of forums I am a member of about this.

Maybe it’ll make a difference or perhaps it will do nothing. However, if my warnings result in even a small amount of people not using your service, I’ll consider it a victory.

This isn’t entirely about the money, it’s about security and service, I can honestly say that your establishment provides only a façade of both of those things.

Sincerely,


Brian H


PS Please do not send me a form response via email, I won’t read it. If you want to talk to me, you call me, I’ve earned that.

For everyone reading this, thank you and please pass it on via the face book, twitter and other “Add this” tags in the corner.

Well thought out and executed-

[Coelacanth]

Wow...Paypal has it's merits, but I've been on the receiving end of one of those dumbass buyers who committed mail fraud (received an item eventually and never admitted it, thus causing Paypal to side with him, refund his money, remove MY money, and force me to enter into a lengthy, time-wasting venture to claim most of my loss through a postal insurance claim)...so I can totally see where that guy is coming from.

Paypal on its own isn't so bad, but coupled with eBay, and eBay's sometimes ludicrous rules, it can be downright useless.